A small takeaway from the women's event - didn't go

amother

Natural

Wed, Jun 22 2022, 8:40 am

OP, I feel so much the way you do. I wish I had the strength and will to live without internet and iPhone. I wish I was raising my kids without exposure to internet and iPhone.

But I do not accept that this is on the level of cheeseburger which is a clear violation of Halacha.

There is a lot of positive to access on the internet as well. I could have Torah classes playing all day long. But the reality is that maybe 10% of my internet use is for that sort of thing right now. Another 10% work related. Maybe another 10% on pretty parve sort of usage - necessary internet shopping or looking up recipes. But 70% is entertainment. Time wasted. That's tremendous. And too embarrassing to admit to people in real life, or even here using my screen name.

So with the goal of making positive, but realistic, changes in my life I am going to strive to cut my time spent on watching shows, playing games, and other miscellaneous entertainment sites (like this one) in half.

amother

NeonPurple

Wed, Jun 22 2022, 8:45 am

op I think it's great that you can have an honest look at the situation. Many people get so defensive when someone says something negative about tech.

I just want to say that I totally get you. I have been there. I had open access at home, smartphone.... I can't believe for myself the changes it's possible to make over time. It's so ironic when I see the way I look now. I used to get so triggered by all the flip phones around me and by filter companies ads (still don't love them)... but then I wanted better for myself and kids... and I took the leap and made 1 huge change. It was so so hard, almost like amputating a limb. But when I got used to it, you can't pay me to go back to how it used to be. It's liberating. and slowly slowly I'm making changes that are really hard, but at the same time enhance my quality of life tremendously.

Don't want to sound preachy or judgmental. I get the struggle. Maybe just chizzuk for you that you can think change is impossible. But when change comes from within, when you yourself want that change (not when it's forced down your throat) then really amazing change and growth is possible.

amother

NeonPurple

Wed, Jun 22 2022, 8:50 am

It really doesn't have to be all or nothing.

There are so many creative solutions to custom make what works for us. My husband has a filter that just closes internet certain times of the day. I have filter that blocks certain content. I can keep on adjusting it according to what I want. I'm still on imamother, I still shop online (no way am I giving that up, Hashem literally created it for me. An adhd introvert mom.) But I blocked all videos slowly. It killed so much of my time. Hulu, netflix, youtube. I still watch at night with my husband on his phone. It's really about figuring out how to live your best, fullest life for yourself.

PinkFridge

Wed, Jun 22 2022, 9:01 am

amother [ Freesia ] wrote:

I might be naive hear, but I would hope this asifa is also to inspire cutting back, stronger filters etc. Many of the events I have been to have been along those lines.

But more than cutting back, filters, etc., it has to ask, who do we want to be?
Nancy Reagan had this Just Say No campaign. But for something like that to succeed you have to have What Am I Saying Yes To And How Will I Fill The Void in place.

PinkFridge

Wed, Jun 22 2022, 9:02 am

amother [ Slateblue ] wrote:

It's really really difficult. The only way to change is to do it in small steps. Read the book atomic habits.
There are also technology support groups. You can contact penimi to sign up for a group near you.

I appreciate this thread because the other thread kind of made me feel like I'm the idiot for struggling. Seemed like people think that internet is neutral and if you are a good person you use it for good and if you are bad you use it for bad. In reality it's so addictive and difficult to get out of once you are in it.

The Penimi initiatives are amazing. Halevai it should be available in every community.

amother

White

Wed, Jun 22 2022, 9:33 am

amother [ Slateblue ] wrote:

Yes! Even something like Netflix and Prime video has some good. It's a good way for me to relax at the end of a long day. it has some good shows and movies that I've watched with my husband on date nights that were positive to our marriage. It's fun to discuss and analyze with friends and relatives. It helps me cope when I'm depressed. It keeps me motivated when I have unpleasant chores to do. It helps me cope when my husband works long hours.
But I watch far too often. I wish it were a once a month kind of habit. Not almost daily.

So I think this is what people mean when they say the internet is a tool that can be used for good or for bad. People can get help for medical problems, can get easier and cheaper shopping, or like you, use it to relax and analyze with friends and relatives....

When people say the internet is ONLY bad and has no redeeming factors I am skeptical. So I get a bit triggered when I hear speakers that say so.

You can say that in your opinion the bad outweighs the good - maybe. But I personally can't see that it's only a negative.

Queen6

Wed, Jun 22 2022, 9:55 am

You should go to the event. They aren’t saying no internet. They aren’t saying no smartphones. They are saying how you can live with it. How to still have connection, head space, focus, relationships… they’re talking about boundaries and borders. They’re talking about childhood development.
When we were growing up the TV was attached to the wall. That was the boundary. Wireless has no boundaries which is what they’re discussing.
Don’t be so negative. Don’t make assumptions. Try to hear another perspective.

amother

Wed, Jun 22 2022, 11:09 am

amother [ White ] wrote:

We used to say the same thing about tv. As someone who still watches quite a bit, while tv has some positive experiences, if I never had tv I think my level of kedusha would be much higher.

When we had the parsha a few weeks ago about קדושים תהיו, there were a lot of divrei Torah on what it means to be kadosh. I watch tons of Netflix and YouTube, and I don’t see that changing anytime soon. And it makes me sad because that’s definitely anti that particular Torah value.

Like one poster said she wanted to cut her entertainment watching in half, and I don’t even know how to accomplish even that.

Zahava94

Wed, Jun 22 2022, 1:46 pm

OP, I think it's a mistake to compare the internet to a cheeseburger, or even to a TV.

Eating a cheeseburger is inherently a no-no for a religion Jew. Using the internet appropriately is a good thing and can enhance one's life in many ways.

Watching TV is not like using the internet. You have no control over what appears on the TV except for choosing channels, which means you are forced to watch whatever ends up appearing on the screen, such as inappropriate advertisements or shows that don't reflect your values. On the internet, at least, you have control over what you visit and see. Sure, it's hard to have the self control to only use it in positive ways and to ensure it doesn't become addictive, but that doesn't mean it's impossible.

I think we're heading down the wrong path when our response is to try banning things instead of trying to provide us with the tools to overcome addictive behavior and learn better self control. This is a major need for ourselves, but even more so for our children. Bans and filters can only go so far.

amother

Steel

Wed, Jun 22 2022, 1:54 pm

Zahava94 wrote:

OP, I think it's a mistake to compare the internet to a cheeseburger, or even to a TV.
…

Watching TV is not like using the internet.

It’s funny - I have a sibling who chose to get a tv over watch regularly on internet.
He felt when you watch on a small device you can do it anywhere and in secret and the whole world is at your fingerprint.
The tv is in middle of house. It’s done together. You are limited to what is being shown instead of the billions of options created by whomever online. I actually see merit to it.

Instead of each watching anything they want on own device they gather in one area and watch something that is available from 5 choices snd has govt ratings. He felt there was way more control and visibility.

amother

Wed, Jun 22 2022, 4:16 pm

Zahava94 wrote:

You’re missing my point. If, to me, the daily consumption of ads, gashmius, YouTube, Netflix, Instagram, imamother, tiktok, WhatsApp, phone usage, is eroding our kedusha, then to me, the analogy is apt. (Not that I have all these apps)

If I believe eating kosher is the right way, then any deviation is the wrong way. If I believe that real kedusha is only possible when you take out internet that can lead to accidental viewing of terrible things, then continuing to consume it is the wrong way.

I’d like to say “I’m not there YET” but I don’t think I’ll ever be there. And in the meantime, what about my children? Am I forever harming them because I’m too weak to take a stand?

amother

Chestnut

Wed, Jun 22 2022, 4:21 pm

amother [ Firebrick ] wrote:

How about having a filter?

Why the black and white?

I have a filter. but I have whatsapp and some other basic apps, not social media. you think the kinnus speakers would applaud me? you think my kids schools would be ok if I told them? I highly doubt it.

for me this is good enough. I'm not spiritually elevated enough to give up what I have... and I don't want to.

PinkFridge

Wed, Jun 22 2022, 4:23 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Lashon hara is a cheeseburger is a technology time wasting is a

amother

NeonPurple

Wed, Jun 22 2022, 4:24 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

It seems like you are inspired to change. But you believe that you can't do it.
Can I make suggestions? You can scroll down if it doesn't resonate with you.
Sit with this a bit. You want change, you want better, it seems impossible stop it, its a huge part of you life.
Try to think of one change you think you can try. And perhaps do it for 3 weeks. Don't promise to do it forever. And also make it impossible to do it. For example if you want to try to stop watching netflix, than sign out and have your husband choose a new password. Otherwise it's a battle every minute. What might happen over a few weeks is that initially you are desperate to watch. Especially shows that you are in the middle of.... after a while, you might lose interest. Evaluate after few weeks if it was too hard, perfect, or ready to take another step.
Whatever and however you decide to do this, believe in yourself. You can live the life you want. You have to work for it and dig deep, but it is possible. You are strong. Don't give up on yourself....

amother

Magenta

Wed, Jun 22 2022, 4:27 pm

amother [ White ] wrote:

If the internet wouldn't have a lot of very positive features then we wouldn't be struggling to give it up.

I think it's a bit naive to say it's all bad and there's no benefit to it at all.

I'm not saying the internet doesn't have positive features, but your sentence is untrue.
Cigarettes only positive feature is that it calms, and the only reason it does is **because** it's addictive and still millions of people struggle to give it up.

amother

Lightpink

Thu, Jun 23 2022, 10:28 pm

Queen6 wrote:

Love this post. So well put. Ppl think this is a yiddishkeit issue so they recoil and fight. Its for YOUR own good. Its YOUR choice. Nobody forces anybody to do anything...

Noses on screens 20 hours a day isn't quality of life ... Lets get real.