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Torah learning protects against superfluous internet use
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amother




OP
 

Post Wed, Jun 22 2022, 9:34 am
R' Lopiansky recently wrote in Mishpacha:

Quote:
in frum circles, men have regular access to the greatest escape from the clutches of social media — through the pursuit of limud haTorah. Learning Torah is a mitzvah that is all-encompassing. It stimulates the intellect and overwhelms the emotions. It fills so many voids. Women, by and large, don’t have that escape built into their daily lives, and this leaves them more vulnerable to the illusory pull of social media.


Similarly, R' Ribner has commented regarding the issue of smartphone use by women that "there is nothing really inspiring the nashim to the madreigas haTorah that the men are holding by."

The ability of Torah learning to counteract the pull of social media and internet is clearly recognized by prominent rabbonim, but there appears to be no interest in the seemingly logical next step of offering this remedy in some form to women.* Even just Chumash or Navi for a few hours a week. Maybe Shulchan Aruch or the Mishneh Torah. Regularly working through and discussing texts, with scheduling flexibility and maybe virtual offerings to make it more workable.

*While there is a "new initiative to connect ladies and girls with Limud HaTorah on a personal level" out of Lakewood, it does not involve the ladies actually doing any learning. They are just being asked to give money to men learning, see. https://www.shela-he.org/
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amother




Gold
 

Post Wed, Jun 22 2022, 9:36 am
Thank you OP. I was waiting for just this post.
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amother




Red
 

Post Wed, Jun 22 2022, 9:41 am
I just checked out that website. Am I reading right?

Each day, you give $1, and Shela-He will send it directly to Talmidei Chachamim that same day.
Every 1,000 members enables us to support another chosen family each day.

$1x 1,000= $1,000 a day
$1,000 x 365 days= $365,000 a year if the aim is to support every day?
Or is it like a one day donation for the year?
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Zehava




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Jun 22 2022, 9:43 am
lol
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paperflowers




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Jun 22 2022, 9:46 am
Got it. Keeping busy, intellectually stimulated, and inspired leaves you with less time for internet use. Solution: continue only offering high level torah learning to the men. Get the women to pay for it instead of offering them intellectually stimulating and inspiring torah learning. Because having a dollar automatically deducted from your bank account is totally the same thing.
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amother




Chicory
 

Post Wed, Jun 22 2022, 9:48 am
Agreed 100% and I'll take it a step further. Learning torah helps men because their minds are busy and engaged and leaves less room for other things. Specifically on the social media piece - learning is usually done with a shiur or a chavrusa or a chabura which inherently has a social component as well. Many women don't have built in socialization IRL and social media affords an opportunity to feel part of the broader community (even if it is not a real connection)
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amother




Gold
 

Post Wed, Jun 22 2022, 9:51 am
amother [ Chicory ] wrote:
Agreed 100% and I'll take it a step further. Learning torah helps men because their minds are busy and engaged and leaves less room for other things. Specifically on the social media piece - learning is usually done with a shiur or a chavrusa or a chabura which inherently has a social component as well. Many women don't have built in socialization IRL and social media affords an opportunity to feel part of the broader community (even if it is not a real connection)

A fake connection is maybe better than no connection at all? Though I disagree that imamother is a fake connection.
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mushkamothers




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Jun 22 2022, 9:52 am
You know what else protects. Having real life fulfilling relationships.

But if a woman is at work the whole day, runs home to get the kids, does supper and bedtime and her husband comes home after either work or learning and goes to Maariv and his chavrusa... when is a woman supposed to have a life? Or even speak to her husband who's busy learning Torah all day?

Or let's say she's a stay at home mom bc it doesn't make financial sense to put 3 babies into a playgroup.

Maybe we change systemic issues instead of blaming the women's stupidity for everything.
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amother




Gold
 

Post Wed, Jun 22 2022, 9:53 am
mushkamothers wrote:
You know what else protects. Having real life fulfilling relationships.

But if a woman is at work the whole day, runs home to get the kids, does supper and bedtime and her husband comes home after either work or learning and goes to Maariv and his chavrusa... when is a woman supposed to have a life? Or even speak to her husband who's busy learning Torah all day?

Or let's say she's a stay at home mom bc it doesn't make financial sense to put 3 babies into a playgroup.

Maybe we change systemic issues instead of blaming the women's stupidity for everything.

Thumbs Up
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Not_in_my_town




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Jun 22 2022, 10:07 am
How about we women spend time actually learning, not just supporting it? And you can even use the internet to do so. There are amazing shiurim out there, such as those by Rabbi YY Jacobson, Rabbi Manis Friedman, Rabbi Akiva Tatz, etc. Turn superflous internet usage into productive internet usage.

Work on the person and the problems will take care of themselves.
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amother




OP
 

Post Wed, Jun 22 2022, 10:29 am
Not_in_my_town wrote:
How about we women spend time actually learning, not just supporting it? And you can even use the internet to do so.

I use the internet heavily for learning already and I encourage other women to do so when they seem interested. But I am nobody of any particular influence and I don't have a public platform or the ability to get tens of thousands to bus to an arena on a random weeknight to propound my message. Those who do, don't seem interested.
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amother




Ballota
 

Post Wed, Jun 22 2022, 11:01 am
100%. I've been saying this privately/to my husband for years but we need someone with the courage of Sarah Schenirer to come out and shout it from the rooftops.
(And no, passively listening to a speaker is not the same as actively learning. Neither is the passive listening, note taking, and wholesale memorization that characterizes most "academic" high school learning in the yeshivish community.)
There is a caveat here, though, and that is that learning won't be the way to reach all girls. There are many boys who struggle with their learning, and for them it is still a chiyuv; for women is not.
HOWEVER, for many women, myself included, a rigorous learning goal and the connection of doing it with a group of ladies would be the antidote, in large part, to the void we're seeking to fill online.
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DrMom




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Jun 22 2022, 11:19 am
There are only so many hours in the day.

Therefore, any activity other than superfluous internet usage protects against superfluous internet usage.

Cooking
Sleeping
Crocheting
Hang-gliding
Swimming
Origami
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amother




RosePink
 

Post Wed, Jun 22 2022, 11:19 am
I’m the OP of the take away thread about internet use. How I want to be better. And what you’re saying isn’t helpful.

I learn every single day. And I work full time. In addition to my set time for learning, often I listen to various speeches by most of the people mentioned here and a few others when they’re available on TorahAnytime. And when I can’t find that, I will listen to podcasts.

Both men who have literally no time between learning and working, and women who work and learn struggle with this nisayon and it’s hardly an answer to say “just give money” or “learn a shiur” and all the yetzer hara disappears.
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amother




OP
 

Post Wed, Jun 22 2022, 11:24 am
amother [ Ballota ] wrote:

There is a caveat here, though, and that is that learning won't be the way to reach all girls. There are many boys who struggle with their learning, and for them it is still a chiyuv; for women is not.

Most of the boys who struggle are struggling in part with a specific type of learning and level of rigor that they are being pushed into. Since women's learning, even textual learning, could be designed with all kinds of different subject matters and at different levels of rigor (at least in large communities) and in different styles, I think something to reach virtually everyone could be done.

For example, a primary text can be studied in a structured way regularly, but with a lower level of rigor, heavy reliance on English translation, and more socializing and personal sharing of how the class members relate to the text. That type of learning, however un-rigorous, I still think would be more valuable to women than the typical one-off inspirational shiurim.

I don't think it's solely a matter of genetic accident whether someone enjoys learning Torah. Yes, we are born with certain predispositions, but also most things that require skill only become enjoyable when you reach a certain level of skill and familiarity. I have a lot more to say about this, but no time right now unfortunately.
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amother




Ballota
 

Post Wed, Jun 22 2022, 11:38 am
Also limited time here, but a big problem in the yeshivish community is the lack of focus on building women's internal world -- most inspirational speeches for ladies focus on tznius, how to be a good wife, etc but really this all needs to rest on a solid foundation of building the person. I think that's why too many girls are becoming disconnected.
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amother




Whitesmoke
 

Post Wed, Jun 22 2022, 11:39 am
amother [ Ballota ] wrote:
Also limited time here, but a big problem in the yeshivish community is the lack of focus on building women's internal world -- most inspirational speeches for ladies focus on tznius, how to be a good wife, etc but really this all needs to rest on a solid foundation of building the person. I think that's why too many girls are becoming disconnected.


I prefer shiurim that are more academic/text based. Turns out women can also handle that.
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BrisketBoss




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Jun 22 2022, 11:50 am
mushkamothers wrote:
You know what else protects. Having real life fulfilling relationships.

But if a woman is at work the whole day, runs home to get the kids, does supper and bedtime and her husband comes home after either work or learning and goes to Maariv and his chavrusa... when is a woman supposed to have a life? Or even speak to her husband who's busy learning Torah all day?

Or let's say she's a stay at home mom bc it doesn't make financial sense to put 3 babies into a playgroup.

Maybe we change systemic issues instead of blaming the women's stupidity for everything.


Maybe men should read Imamother.
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amother




OP
 

Post Wed, Jun 22 2022, 11:50 am
DrMom wrote:
There are only so many hours in the day.

Therefore, any activity other than superfluous internet usage protects against superfluous internet usage.

Cooking
Sleeping
Crocheting
Hang-gliding
Swimming
Origami

Agreed. But Torah learning specifically is recognized to have protective effects against one's yetzer hara, generally be beneficial to a Jew, and improve one's character in unique ways.
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naturalmom5




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Jun 22 2022, 11:53 am
Bh Very Happy
I’m happy to see this
I’ve been saying this for years till I’m blue in the face
It restores my sanity to see that other sisters feel the same way
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