Torah learning protects against superfluous internet use

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amother

PlumPink

Wed, Jun 22 2022, 12:04 pm

I have literally nodded yes to every single post here. I would love to attend a class with intellectual style torah learning where the group is engaged and discussions and positive acts are inspired. I don't really go to shiurim because I don't connect with that sort of learning at all- so what do you think I end up doing during whatever extra time I have...
If there was an offering of all different sorts of Torah classes- on subjects other than tznius and bayis neeman etc think of what sort of positive change that would have on us, and by extension our relationships with our family and friends!

amother

Ballota

Wed, Jun 22 2022, 12:23 pm

Ok great so now how are we all going to find each other irl?

PinkFridge

Wed, Jun 22 2022, 12:40 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

R' Lopiansky recently wrote in Mishpacha:

Quote:

in frum circles, men have regular access to the greatest escape from the clutches of social media — through the pursuit of limud haTorah. Learning Torah is a mitzvah that is all-encompassing. It stimulates the intellect and overwhelms the emotions. It fills so many voids. Women, by and large, don’t have that escape built into their daily lives, and this leaves them more vulnerable to the illusory pull of social media.

Similarly, R' Ribner has commented regarding the issue of smartphone use by women that "there is nothing really inspiring the nashim to the madreigas haTorah that the men are holding by."

The ability of Torah learning to counteract the pull of social media and internet is clearly recognized by prominent rabbonim, but there appears to be no interest in the seemingly logical next step of offering this remedy in some form to women.* Even just Chumash or Navi for a few hours a week. Maybe Shulchan Aruch or the Mishneh Torah. Regularly working through and discussing texts, with scheduling flexibility and maybe virtual offerings to make it more workable.

*While there is a "new initiative to connect ladies and girls with Limud HaTorah on a personal level" out of Lakewood, it does not involve the ladies actually doing any learning. They are just being asked to give money to men learning, see. https://www.shela-he.org/

OK, I'm going to post as I read it.
There's another aspect that's similar to an approach to dieting. If you start eating the right foods, you'll have less room for the garbage.

So what can we do to fill the space properly? Certainly stimulating Torah. But not all women will appreciate learning for the sake of learning. I sometimes think that women are davka wired NOT to enjoy that kind of learning. There is a LOT of content out there to listen to. And yes, arranging chavrusas, or deciding that this year I will learn this sefer are great ideas too.

And for many women, filling their time with chesed works too. (And while you're making that meal for someone on the meal train, listen to something meaningful.)

PinkFridge

Wed, Jun 22 2022, 12:44 pm

mushkamothers wrote:

You know what else protects. Having real life fulfilling relationships.

But if a woman is at work the whole day, runs home to get the kids, does supper and bedtime and her husband comes home after either work or learning and goes to Maariv and his chavrusa... when is a woman supposed to have a life? Or even speak to her husband who's busy learning Torah all day?

Or let's say she's a stay at home mom bc it doesn't make financial sense to put 3 babies into a playgroup.

Maybe we change systemic issues instead of blaming the women's stupidity for everything.

And not exactly addressing your very valid points but somewhat related: We can choose how we decompress or spend those alone evenings. Maybe read. Do puzzles. Some sort of hobby. Listen to lighter but meaningful content. So many good podcasts out there. Fascinating shiurim too.

PinkFridge

Wed, Jun 22 2022, 12:45 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I use the internet heavily for learning already and I encourage other women to do so when they seem interested. But I am nobody of any particular influence and I don't have a public platform or the ability to get tens of thousands to bus to an arena on a random weeknight to propound my message. Those who do, don't seem interested.

Hey ladies, join Nach Yomi!

PinkFridge

Wed, Jun 22 2022, 12:47 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Most of the boys who struggle are struggling in part with a specific type of learning and level of rigor that they are being pushed into. Since women's learning, even textual learning, could be designed with all kinds of different subject matters and at different levels of rigor (at least in large communities) and in different styles, I think something to reach virtually everyone could be done.

For example, a primary text can be studied in a structured way regularly, but with a lower level of rigor, heavy reliance on English translation, and more socializing and personal sharing of how the class members relate to the text. That type of learning, however un-rigorous, I still think would be more valuable to women than the typical one-off inspirational shiurim.

I don't think it's solely a matter of genetic accident whether someone enjoys learning Torah. Yes, we are born with certain predispositions, but also most things that require skill only become enjoyable when you reach a certain level of skill and familiarity. I have a lot more to say about this, but no time right now unfortunately.

I don't want any woman out there to feel lesser because she doesn't want to engage in in-depth learning in a subject she has no interest in.

PinkFridge

Wed, Jun 22 2022, 12:54 pm

amother [ Ballota ] wrote:

Also limited time here, but a big problem in the yeshivish community is the lack of focus on building women's internal world -- most inspirational speeches for ladies focus on tznius, how to be a good wife, etc but really this all needs to rest on a solid foundation of building the person. I think that's why too many girls are becoming disconnected.

https://www.penimi.org/learning-groups
I was doing some googling and found this. Should be good listening:

https://podcasts.apple.com/dz/.....07450

PinkFridge

Wed, Jun 22 2022, 12:54 pm

amother [ Whitesmoke ] wrote:

I prefer shiurim that are more academic/text based. Turns out women can also handle that.

Sure we can handle that. That doesn't mean we want a steady diet of it. Some of us.

PinkFridge

Wed, Jun 22 2022, 12:55 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Agreed. But Torah learning specifically is recognized to have protective effects against one's yetzer hara, generally be beneficial to a Jew, and improve one's character in unique ways.

So are chesed and maasim tovim. (Not necessarily referring to that list.)

amother

Wed, Jun 22 2022, 1:03 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

I don't want any woman out there to feel lesser because she doesn't want to engage in in-depth learning in a subject she has no interest in.

Depth and breadth of learning are variables that can be easily adjusted.

Every believing Jew, by definition, has some level of interest in Torah, barring major cognitive incapacity. Maybe not in every little bit and detail of it, but at least in some of it. I cannot imagine how an observant woman could have literally "no interest" in even a tiny little bit of the entire broad corpus of what falls under the umbrella of Torah, unless she is Orthoprax and being forced into observance by family or other circumstances. I'm not sure I've met anyone IRL who can't be engaged at some level.

I have firsthand experience teaching text (in English) to little kids, as young as age 4 and they are interested. The depth is limited, but we do follow the text. If four year olds can be interested, then surely something in the entire broad corpus of Torah can be found and presented in an interesting way for practically any adult woman.

DustyDiamonds

Wed, Jun 22 2022, 1:08 pm

2-3 (maybe 4?) years ago we were in the heart of Lakewood for a 3 day Shavuos. I had really wanted to attend a shiur. I asked lots of my SIL’s neighbors, yet nobody could point me to one Womens shiur on the holiday of Kabalas HaTorah, in the city of Lakewood Iyr HaTorah.

amother

Ballota

Wed, Jun 22 2022, 1:15 pm

[ I sometimes think that women are davka wired NOT to enjoy that kind of learning. There is a LOT of content out there to listen to. And yes, arranging chavrusas, or deciding that [/quote]
This is EXACTLY the kind of stereotyping that those of us on this thread find so frustrating Banging head

paperflowers

Wed, Jun 22 2022, 1:23 pm

If some of you are looking for engaged learning, I’ve heard great things about the OU Women’s Initiative.

amother

Whitesmoke

Wed, Jun 22 2022, 1:26 pm

DustyDiamonds wrote:

That's too bad.

I have an MO friend with no kids yet, she and her husband went together to a tikkun and had a great time staying up all night learning. The principal of my pluralistic high school used to organize a whole night for us too and it was so much fun.

scruffy

Wed, Jun 22 2022, 1:34 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

Hey ladies, join Nach Yomi!

This sounds so nice! Review please?

amother

Freesia

Wed, Jun 22 2022, 1:39 pm

In-depth learning courses for women:
https://www.batshevalearningcenter.com

They are starting a Gemara course soon: https://www.batshevalearningce.....urses

PinkFridge

Wed, Jun 22 2022, 1:40 pm

paperflowers wrote:

If some of you are looking for engaged learning, I’ve heard great things about the OU Women’s Initiative.

Yes! I was going to go back and that to my post on Nach Yomi. There's this summer's ALIT learning program. Yes, a bit more passive, but meaningful.

PinkFridge

Wed, Jun 22 2022, 1:41 pm

amother [ Ballota ] wrote:

[ I sometimes think that women are davka wired NOT to enjoy that kind of learning. There is a LOT of content out there to listen to. And yes, arranging chavrusas, or deciding that

This is EXACTLY the kind of stereotyping that those of us on this thread find so frustrating Banging head

[/quote]

Sorry. I said I sometimes think. And I think it's some women, not all. I really don't believe it's conditioning, that if I'd only got the same mishna and gemara prep that I'd want to learn.

I'm sorry. I really do know that many women DO have that drive.

PinkFridge

Wed, Jun 22 2022, 1:44 pm

scruffy wrote:

This sounds so nice! Review please?

Roughly every two years there is a cycle that covers Nach from Yehoshua through Divrei Hayamim, a perek a day. You can find it on OUTorah. (I think that YU Torah has something too.) There's a choice of speakers, and usually a written summary. Siyumim every month through the OU Torah Women's Initiative.
https://outorah.org/series/4046/
https://www.ou.org/women/torat-imecha/nach/
It's up to Yeshaya perek 7 today.

amother

Ballota

Wed, Jun 22 2022, 1:56 pm

amother [ Freesia ] wrote:

In-depth learning courses for women:
https://www.batshevalearningcenter.com

They are starting a Gemara course soon: https://www.batshevalearningce.....urses

Wow! This is what I need!
But we're a yeshivish Lakewood family and I am not sure I want to see my husband's reaction when I buy a book or course from them...

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