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Being so into clothing
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amother




Springgreen
 

Post Thu, Jun 23 2022, 3:58 am
I’m into clothing because I grew up in a very in-town place. A year ago we moved away and I felt this pressure cooker being removed from around my head. My kids are the best dressed in the block if I can say so myself and I’m still into clothing (it’s not something that can disappear) but it’s a relief to be freed from the pressure and to speak to neighbors about about stuff other then their children’s clothes.
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amother




Offwhite
 

Post Thu, Jun 23 2022, 4:04 am
We're not supposed to say this out loud, but our society has become very shallow. It's okay to care about looks, but prioritizing it to this extreme is not okay.
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amother




Cyan
 

Post Thu, Jun 23 2022, 4:22 am
twizzlers1 wrote:
You can come to Israel! And absolutely no pressure here. And go to a wedding and you'll see people in jeans no see people super fancy. Cuz most people know people that live in different circles. But even the area I live in absolutely anything goes and there is zero pressure. People enjoy dressing up and finding the perfect outfit and I don't think there's anything wrong in that either. It's not my thing but the people that really brings them a lot of pleasure. In a pretty harmless way.


This is not true across the board. There are definitely communities where there is peer pressure and over the top materialism.
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amother




Sunflower
 

Post Thu, Jun 23 2022, 5:18 am
twizzlers1 wrote:
You can come to Israel! And absolutely no pressure here. And go to a wedding and you'll see people in jeans no see people super fancy. Cuz most people know people that live in different circles. But even the area I live in absolutely anything goes and there is zero pressure. People enjoy dressing up and finding the perfect outfit and I don't think there's anything wrong in that either. It's not my thing but the people that really brings them a lot of pleasure. In a pretty harmless way.


Definitely community specific. Go to Romema, for example, and they're all wearing the same ribbed matching sets with their MK shoes and bags, or whatever it is this season.
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amother




Sunflower
 

Post Thu, Jun 23 2022, 5:22 am
I agree with looking nice, and in style, dressing kids in matching outfits - that's all fine. What is not fine is when you are judged for being one season out, or expected to spend $100 on each outfit, or ONLY let your kids wear matching outfits - the ridiculous expectations.

I can't imagine how much time and effort is spent on this shopping thing - it makes me sad to see how much of an obsession there is about gashmiyus (not just clothes) standards - the obsession is the problem.

Our focus should be on self-growth, and you can't tell me that someone who cares soooo much about what they look like and what clothes they are wearing, and communities that judge and pressurize because of it - can have a true understanding of their limited time in olam hazeh and what they are really meant to be focused on.
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amother




Pearl
 

Post Thu, Jun 23 2022, 5:38 am
I once read in a (obviously non-frum) book that women get manipulated into caring so much about fashion, external appearance and beauty - to keep them busy and give them a field to compete in. At the same time, it prevents them from competing with men or getting in their way.
Women spent a lot of their energy looking like something. Men spend their energy being something.
I sometimes think there is a grain of truth in that.
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Rappel




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jun 23 2022, 6:04 am
amother [ Offwhite ] wrote:
We're not supposed to say this out loud, but our society has become very shallow. It's okay to care about looks, but prioritizing it to this extreme is not okay.


It sounds like people are bored.

What can we strive for?
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amother




Glitter
 

Post Thu, Jun 23 2022, 6:12 am
Crookshanks wrote:
Possibly her take is that Hashem created us to take pleasure from this world.
But you are soooo smart and holy for thinking of such a smart question Banging head


You’re right. There’s definitely a concept of enjoying and using what you need. But there is also taking that to an extreme.
I’m not judging her. Just an observation. Relax.

Open up any frum magazine and the gashmiyus really hits you in the face.
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amother




Fuchsia
 

Post Thu, Jun 23 2022, 6:44 am
It's a feminine thing to care about aesthetic and stylish clothing. Chazal did NOT look down on this and dismiss it as gashmiyus.

(I can't speak to outside pressure about these things. I moved "in town" when I got married and am just a faceless person in a sea of frum people with no real community. I feel absolutely no pressure, but I love when my younger kids match. And I feel good when I look pretty or have a new outfit. If that's all my life was about, or if I was obsessively chasing brands and looks, that's gashmiyus. If it's just how I take joy in my family, I think Jewish mesorah is cognizant of the fact that women take pleasure in these things. For example, a husband is obligated to buy his wife colorful clothing according to his means. Simchas yuntif is clothing and jewelry. And more. )
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amother




NeonBlue
 

Post Thu, Jun 23 2022, 7:07 am
There are so many women throughout history who were respected for many reasons. And many of these women also took care of themselves and cared very much how they looked. Elegance was of outmost importance to them. A woman automatically gives off a higher value aura when she takes care of herself. And these women knew that.

But there is obviously a difference between running after trends and valuing elegance.
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amother




Vanilla
 

Post Thu, Jun 23 2022, 7:13 am
It’s become a career in communities where women don’t have meaningful careers outside the home.

That, and being a top notch balabusta.
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imaima




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jun 23 2022, 7:14 am
amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:
It's a feminine thing to care about aesthetic and stylish clothing. Chazal did NOT look down on this and dismiss it as gashmiyus.

(I can't speak to outside pressure about these things. I moved "in town" when I got married and am just a faceless person in a sea of frum people with no real community. I feel absolutely no pressure, but I love when my younger kids match. And I feel good when I look pretty or have a new outfit. If that's all my life was about, or if I was obsessively chasing brands and looks, that's gashmiyus. If it's just how I take joy in my family, I think Jewish mesorah is cognizant of the fact that women take pleasure in these things. For example, a husband is obligated to buy his wife colorful clothing according to his means. Simchas yuntif is clothing and jewelry. And more. )


Above his means!
For kids, according to his means
For himself, below his means.
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ruchelbuckle




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jun 23 2022, 10:14 am
amother [ Vanilla ] wrote:
It’s become a career in communities where women don’t have meaningful careers outside the home.

That, and being a top notch balabusta.



I just want to expand on this. If a person has anything meaningful to do with their time- be it a meaningful career outside the home, or if they are able to find true meaning and joy in being a a bas yisrael and (if applicable) an "eim b'yisrael"-- then they don't need to fill up their days looking for matching clothes and decorating their homes., etc. (Full disclosure- I work outside the home, in a non-Jewish setting).

Obviously, it's important to look nice and presentable.
And of course, we want our houses to look nice-- my first floor bathroom had peeling paint, and it was starting to look like a ghetto! I had it repainted, and I wanted it to look nice. But it was also important to me that I not spend too much time choosing the paint colors, light fixtures, etc. Enough. It needs to look b'kavodik, and that's it. My house doesn't need to look like Bill Gates lives here (or is visiting).

There are unfortunately frum people who take it to an extreme. And it's a real nebuch. You can't take it with you.

I'm not going to be following this thread, so if you want to bash me, please PM me or email me. The user HashemYazor has my email address!
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amother




Jetblack
 

Post Thu, Jun 23 2022, 10:33 am
I lived in a congested place, everyone same community. Some people enjoyed the shopping. They didn't even spend so much money, they had a knack for it. Others hated shopping, were so poor, and couldn't be different. So they were bz their whole day with shopping sales, returning, mending something they bought on sale 4 sizes to big, matching their kids. Nebach! all their energy was put into it. They were also soo into dressing according to season. Like first long outfits, then for a few weeks after pesach thinner long sleeve tops, then short sleeve top and long pants, then shorts...
And you know what, I also made more of an effort. I fixed the pants that was a little too long... I can't say my whole head was into it because I'm pretty chilled and bh confident, but I also didn't want my kids to stand ou

I moved to different neighborhood. All neighbors frum but different types and different ages. And I feel like I can breathe! I don't have to hem my kids bathing suits! If it's getting warmer I just pull out the thinnest top from their winter pile... It's such a machaya.
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ShishKabob




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jun 23 2022, 10:37 am
amother [ Offwhite ] wrote:
We're not supposed to say this out loud, but our society has become very shallow. It's okay to care about looks, but prioritizing it to this extreme is not okay.
This! There's nothing wrong with liking your kids matching or to wear nice clothing. The problem becomes when it becomes THE focus and when you get bent out of shape because you can't get what you want.
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amother




Canary
 

Post Thu, Jun 23 2022, 11:47 am
amother [ Vanilla ] wrote:
It’s become a career in communities where women don’t have meaningful careers outside the home.

That, and being a top notch balabusta.


This.
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amother




Yellow
 

Post Thu, Jun 23 2022, 11:58 am
twizzlers1 wrote:
You can come to Israel! And absolutely no pressure here. And go to a wedding and you'll see people in jeans no see people super fancy. Cuz most people know people that live in different circles. But even the area I live in absolutely anything goes and there is zero pressure. People enjoy dressing up and finding the perfect outfit and I don't think there's anything wrong in that either. It's not my thing but the people that really brings them a lot of pleasure. In a pretty harmless way.


I Wonder where you love? I live in oot uSA and when I visit my in laws with my kids every so often there is sooo much pressure I always get back on the plane and say bh I live where I live
There is definitely pressure in Israel...ramat bet shemeah ramat eshkol certain parts of yerushalm
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Fab4




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jun 23 2022, 2:24 pm
amother [ Sienna ] wrote:
Who said it's a stress? Only a stress when can't find things like.


And when you can't afford it.
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amother




Jetblack
 

Post Thu, Jun 23 2022, 4:09 pm
Also a big problem is that those who dress their kids and themselves well are considered "copers". They know how to do it. It's looked up to as a talent "wow, she got it together."
So if I dress less then that, even though nice and clean... just not "the latest" it gives the impression that I don't know how to do. Not for the real reason that I don't want to spend so much time shopping and mending and returning and I want to save money. It comes across as shlumpy and not so together...
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mitzva




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Jun 23 2022, 4:43 pm
Crookshanks wrote:
Omg y'all cut the judgement. Some people like clothing and pretty things. And find happiness finding matching clothing for their children. It doesn't make you a worse person. I can't believe I actually have to spell out such an elementary concept in this thread.


I always admire women who I dub "french women". They have a beautiful taste because they have innate talent for fashion, for home decor, for food preparation.
They are put together and I have joy when I am a guest at their home or simply meet at weddings et.
But, as for the people who are doing what the "jones" are doing, their manner of dressing too well is rigid and so not natural it HURTS THEY EYE....
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