I feel terrible | Imamother

BrisketBoss

Sun, Jun 26 2022, 12:28 am

amother [ Lemon ] wrote:

Trying to insist that my DH doesn’t have a right to be in the bathroom because she needs to go right away as soon as she feels the sensation when really she knows how to hold it in and then when I say no you won’t have an accident she has to prove me wrong and show me she will have an accident.

Usually 'manipulating' involves trying to get somebody else to do something. I don't see that in this story.

And maybe there were details left out but I also didn't see in the story that she was trying to prove you wrong. I saw that she was upset about the bathroom and she told you what she was going to do about it. You didn't believe her, but she really did intend to do it. I didn't interpret "I'm going to have an accident" as a literal "It will be accidental, I can't control it."

Edit--or maybe mushka is right. Either way, she told you what would happen and it happened. Sounds pretty simple.

amother

Lemon

Sun, Jun 26 2022, 12:34 am

mushkamothers wrote:

So she told you she couldn't keep it in and then proceeded to do just that, how is that manipulation.

It's a very big deal to create shame at this age. It's such a big deal that it's Eriksons stages of growth - you either emerge with shame or with autonomy over bodily functions. Please be matter of fact and nonjudgmental as much as possible.

Because I know my DD. She was trained for months already without accidents and we could be out for hours and she’d say she needed to go to the bathroom and we couldn’t find one for several hours and she had no problem holding it in until we could find a toilet. On this particular day she had plenty of opportunity to use the toilet and when we got home she didn’t go straight to the bathroom. What changed in the one minute from when we got home until my DH decided to go to the bathroom that suddenly she had to go so badly that she had to have an accident on the floor because she couldn’t hold it? It doesn’t make any sense. My DD is very smart and there are multiple other instances of small manipulations she does. 3.5 year olds aren’t babies. They can be smart enough to be in tune with how their actions affect others.

And yes I’m very well aware of not shaming kids for accidents. Has nothing to do with my post.

amother

Charcoal

Sun, Jun 26 2022, 12:37 am

mushkamothers wrote:

Not possible for a 3 year old to be this manipulative. They are still trying to please you.

Careful not to associate shame with the toileting process.

Sure it is. One of my kids wanted a special cake that my mother in law makes, but she only makes it for boys who are trained. The week before he turned 3 he was perfect- no accidents at all. After he ate his cake, he pooped on his pants…..and continues to do so for the next couple of months. He did what he needed to do to get what he wanted, then didn’t care about it anymore because he got it.

amother

Orchid

Sun, Jun 26 2022, 12:40 am

Op it’s ok we all lose it sometimes. Just tomorrow try to be better. My 3.5 year old was recently trained (a few weeks) he doesn’t have accidents at school but at home just yesterday he had a few and today he had one. I got annoyed at him. I home the rest of the week is better.

BrisketBoss

Sun, Jun 26 2022, 12:44 am

amother [ Charcoal ] wrote:

That doesn't sound like manipulation either. He did it for his benefit. It was simple, no management or influence as characterizes manipulation. no If an adult does something to win an award and doesn't repeat the thing, is that manipulation?

amother

Lemon

Sun, Jun 26 2022, 12:47 am

BrisketBoss wrote:

That doesn't sound like manipulation either. He did it for his benefit. It was simple, no management or influence as characterizes manipulation. no If an adult does something to get a reward and doesn't repeat the thing, is that manipulation?

Definition of manipulate: “ control or influence (a person or situation) cleverly, unfairly, or unscrupulously.”

BrisketBoss

Sun, Jun 26 2022, 12:47 am

amother [ Lemon ] wrote:

Definition of manipulate: “ control or influence (a person or situation) cleverly, unfairly, or unscrupulously.”

Where do you see that in this scenario? I'm lost.

Naturally if he did it for a reward then he was doing it for the reward. No more reward, no more motivation. It wasn't a deep plot like "I'll just make her think I'm trained!"

amother

Lemon

Sun, Jun 26 2022, 12:52 am

BrisketBoss wrote:

Where do you see that in this scenario? I'm lost.

He knows he needs to be toilet trained to get the cake but he doesn’t want to be toilet trained. So he controls his behavior to week to make his grandmother think he’s toilet trained so he can get the reward from her. Once he’s already received the reward he goes back to not being toilet trained. Clearly he has the ability to be toilet trained if he managed for a week.

amother

Ballota

Sun, Jun 26 2022, 12:59 am

I’m guilty of doing this myself. I struggled substantially more recently with my 3 yr old then I did with her older sister. She would withhold making both #1 and #2 for over 16 hours!!!!! At some point I just lost it. At the end of I decided I needed a reset without all the pressure so I gave her the diaper back for the week and then one day it just clicked for her and she never looked back BH!! I couldn’t believe it. Give yourself a break and try and take some of the pressure off your child. Build up their confidence and when they make in places they shouldn’t keep it very matter of fact “where does poop go? Right, in the potty”. You should also prompt frequently with “don’t forget if you need to poop the potty is right here”.

amother

Lemon

Sun, Jun 26 2022, 1:01 am

BrisketBoss wrote:

She was trying to insist that my DH didn’t have a right to be in the bathroom because she had to go and if she didn’t go she would have an accident. Had I ignored her she would’ve held it in. But because I said you won’t have an accident she deliberately went on the floor and said see I told you I’d have an accident. Why is that so hard to believe?

amother

Kiwi

Sun, Jun 26 2022, 1:14 am

Any child development class I've taken stresses that this is a power struggle you will never, ever win.
This (and to a certain extent, eating) is the only thing a child that age has sole control over. It's never a good idea to get into an argument with a child about this, because you will absolutely lose. You can encourage and cajole, but it is self defeating to argue.

BrisketBoss

Sun, Jun 26 2022, 1:33 am

amother [ Lemon ] wrote:

What was she trying to manipulate you into doing? Make your husband leave the bathroom? Say "Ok you'll have an accident?" Maybe she was trying to demonstrate the fact of her control and there is indeed a connection with your "No you won't" comment but it just doesn't sound manipulative.

amother

Sage

Sun, Jun 26 2022, 1:48 am

I’ll repeat what others have said. You are human and no need to beat yourself up about it, but for the future it’s perfectly normal for a child that age to be scared of bm in the toilet. You can allow your child to poop in a diaper. Never ever yell or in any way associate toileting with negativity….been there done that most children will end up fine , but some kids will start holding in their poop bec it’s scary for them and it has a negative connotation with yelling and shame and that is a road you don’t want to go down…. Remain patient and positive and reward behavior with instant gratification like a taffy every time they do st right. Big rewards seldom work at this age. Good luck!

amother

Oxfordblue

Sun, Jun 26 2022, 11:52 am

amother [ Lemon ] wrote:

Or she was already holding it in and really had to go? How strange to play power trip games over the bathroom and to pit her against her father.

amother

Lemon

Sun, Jun 26 2022, 12:38 pm

amother [ Oxfordblue ] wrote:

Or she was already holding it in and really had to go? How strange to play power trip games over the bathroom and to pit her against her father.

She wasn’t. We got home and if she really had to go so badly she would’ve gone then. after a couple of minutes when my DH had to go she was suddenly at the point where she needed to go that second? Come on. As I mentioned before many times she said she needed to go so badly and then held it in just fine for hours. I know my DD. You don’t. I don’t understand why no one believes me but whatever.

amother

Jade

Sun, Jun 26 2022, 12:45 pm

amother [ Lemon ] wrote:

That’s not behavior you like but it’s not manipulation.

amother

Kiwi

Sun, Jun 26 2022, 12:45 pm

amother [ Lemon ] wrote:

If you are going to "argue" with a child about her bathroom control of course she'll play the ultimate card to prove you wrong. It's the only control a small child has in their life. What was the point in your attempt to prove this with her? Asking seriously not snarkily, I don't see what anyone gained out of that incident.

OP, I'm a long time teacher and I've had (grade 2-5) students with serious bathroom issues. Most were traced back to anxiety. Not the parents fault, it's how the kids were wired, but that's exactly why it's a good idea to tread carefully here.

amother

Pearl

Sun, Jun 26 2022, 12:55 pm

I just want to point out that kids on the spectrum are different. They don't do well with change. My husband refused to be trained. So his parents put him in cloth diapers and made him clean them. This was at 4 when they knew he was ready just stubborn. My daughter wasn't ready until 4 either. My son we did at 3. It took an extra month for #2 because he was scared. I am happy to report that no one is traumatized and everyone seems fully trained.