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I need help with 12 yo DS, devastating family
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LALA2




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Jun 26 2022, 7:16 am
Like many of you, im at wits end my family is sufferi ng. My 12 yo was never easy but now has become uncontrollable. He definitely has ADHD, but mostly he is defiant and purposely cruel to his family. He goes to a well know yeshiva in NYC, does somewhat ok showing off in frumkeit etc for the world, abuses his family at home. When I try to speak to him, he curses at me and details how he wishes I would die, his father would die etc, he is abusive and mean to siblings and very manipulative, always asking for tablet etc..

Refuses to do basic hygiene, eat healthy, whole diet is only sugar and carbs, he considers us "less than" and therefore does t have to listen to us and can freely abuse us. I have thought of calling Police/ems but I have no emotional strength to deal with outcome. He refuses to take meds or vitamins, has some odd OCD and very suspicious of therapy etc, smart, bright, can be kind to others who are not in family sometimes, cares for animals, hates his family...



Is there a psychiatrist who will also treat pandas if needed?
I have consulted homeopath but he refuses to take the few remedies...
I cant use rewards a anymore bc he gets mad etc and too many issues to address at once...

Please advise, gently as my heart is broken...
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amother




Stoneblue
 

Post Sun, Jun 26 2022, 7:18 am
What have you tried until now? Specifics
Then we can try to help problem-solve
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LALA2




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Jun 26 2022, 7:37 am
We have been to psychiatrist who recommended meds, the psychiatrist was via zoom, gave blanket ADHD dx and pushed meds, im not excited about psych meds as I see a lot of side dffects etc.. but he refuses meds and it will be a horrid battle.....he has a "therapist" in school but all he does is buy him treats and prizes, claims has to establish rapport....., tried rewards, punishments etc, but he is completely uncontrollable/ unmanageable, every single thing is a battle that I cant win
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amother




Rainbow
 

Post Sun, Jun 26 2022, 7:39 am
I am so sorry Op.
My heart goes out to you.
And ds and your whole family.
A real challenge.
Davening you find your shaliach to a healthier situation.
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mha3484




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Jun 26 2022, 7:42 am
Have you read the explosive child by ross greene? I think it would help you a lot. Are you on facebook?
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amother




NeonPurple
 

Post Sun, Jun 26 2022, 7:49 am
I don't know if this exists for the frum community but a family retreat with a few days of intensive therapy may be helpful in breaking through the impasse.
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amother




Slategray
 

Post Sun, Jun 26 2022, 7:49 am
LALA2 wrote:
Like many of you, im at wits end my family is sufferi ng. My 12 yo was never easy but now has become uncontrollable. He definitely has ADHD, but mostly he is defiant and purposely cruel to his family. He goes to a well know yeshiva in NYC, does somewhat ok showing off in frumkeit etc for the world, abuses his family at home. When I try to speak to him, he curses at me and details how he wishes I would die, his father would die etc, he is abusive and mean to siblings and very manipulative, always asking for tablet etc..

Refuses to do basic hygiene, eat healthy, whole diet is only sugar and carbs, he considers us "less than" and therefore does t have to listen to us and can freely abuse us. I have thought of calling Police/ems but I have no emotional strength to deal with outcome. He refuses to take meds or vitamins, has some odd OCD and very suspicious of therapy etc, smart, bright, can be kind to others who are not in family sometimes, cares for animals, hates his family...



Is there a psychiatrist who will also treat pandas if needed?
I have consulted homeopath but he refuses to take the few remedies...
I cant use rewards a anymore bc he gets mad etc and too many issues to address at once...

Please advise, gently as my heart is broken...


Please do look into pandas or pans. Lots of symptoms here. You may still need psych or other meds just to control a baseline but know that there's something else causing it.
Know that you're not a bad mom. And your child isn't a bad person either. He's just ill.
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amother




NeonGreen
 

Post Sun, Jun 26 2022, 7:59 am
Maybe apply for HCBS services? It may not be a solution but at least would give you a break sometimes....
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amother




Stoneblue
 

Post Sun, Jun 26 2022, 8:06 am
Do you have a diagnosis? Not so clear. Sounds like that could be the first thing.
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LALA2




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Jun 26 2022, 8:09 am
I guess our Dx is ADHD,ODD, possible PANS/ PANDAS
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amother




Gladiolus
 

Post Sun, Jun 26 2022, 8:15 am
amother [ Slategray ] wrote:
Please do look into pandas or pans. Lots of symptoms here. You may still need psych or other meds just to control a baseline but know that there's something else causing it.
Know that you're not a bad mom. And your child isn't a bad person either. He's just ill.

Agree with this.
I'm so very sorry for you, I can only begin to imagine your pain. I have a dc with similar struggles and I know it's pans. Craniosacral therapy and homeopathy have helped a lot. Is cst something you'd be willing to look into/would If comply?
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Rubies




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Jun 26 2022, 8:24 am
Does he currently have an after-school activity or club he loves going to?
This won't solve your issues but the effects of an environment where he feels he belongs and loves the work is multi-faceted.
Extra credit for something he feels powerful doing - like karate but he needs to be in a place where he won't use that on the family when angry.

Sometimes these things can bring about enough changes that he might be open to therapy or meds.
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amother




Blueberry
 

Post Sun, Jun 26 2022, 8:41 am
I had that with my son
Tried everything from going to social workers, occupational therapy, animal therapy, music therapy
We spoke to people- so many people who were professionals and gave parenting classes
He physically hurt his siblings
Emotionally hurt us all the time
The only thing that worked was complimenting him for the tiny bit that he did right
And complimenting him again in front of people
Also rewarding him -when all we wanted to do was punish him forever
Incentive charts with huge rewards at the end helped us. An electric scooter, music lessons, a trampoline, a trip overseas… are examples of rewards
Our other kids rewards were ice cream, stickers or something small
Eventually we sent him to a high school dorm at 13.5 years old. He listened better there as he didn’t want to stand out. There was a curfew with the circuit braker switched off in the dorm rooms. My curfew at home was meaningless. There were severe consequences for not getting up for shachris. He couldn’t get up on time at home because he went to bed so late insisting that a boy his age doesn’t have a bedtime and doesn’t have to listen to us anyway.
My son refused medication. With an incentive chart for a huge reward he agreed to vitamins that really didn’t help him in my opinion. We had a chart for not hurting siblings. A chart for speaking with respect. A chart for going to school on time… the reward made it worth it. Complimenting him for trying to be good helped him to stay on track.
The approach that he was absolutely amazing even though that’s not how we felt was very encouraging. Taking him on outings and telling him how much we enjoyed spending time with him worked well. A family trip with mostly his interests in mind was so good for him right before we sent him away to dorm.
I daven for his emotional stability. His anger as a teen is scary. He is not okay yet. At this point he can only be helped if he wants to be helped. I daven that he should be friends with good boys who can have a good influence on him. Most important, I daven that he should have the emotional strength to choose right from wrong.
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amother




Yolk
 

Post Sun, Jun 26 2022, 8:44 am
Is there any way to get him to take medic? Forget abt side effects, see first if it helps him overall.
Also, he needs new therapy.
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amother




Hydrangea
 

Post Sun, Jun 26 2022, 8:46 am
Unfortunately I relate and empathize. Same struggle. My son is13 and the whole family is terrified and traumatized. I can't believe this is my home and my family. It's heart wrenching
To the poster above, were did u send your son????
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LALA2




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Jun 26 2022, 9:15 am
He takes karate and swimming. Doesnt help at all. He will refuse all meds. Rewards will be useless. He has an intense hatred for us that supercedes his drive for rewards. The only thing he wants now is tablet, constant fight between us and him about tablet. He also has warped ideas about frumkeit. I regret so much sending him to the well known frum yeshiva. It made him crazy. I need a relaxed frum boarding school focused on middos, discipline, and academics....anything out there like this in NYC AREA?


ALSO, those of you who suggest PANS treatment, do you have a doctor that delivers results???

Thank you all
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amother




Blueberry
 

Post Sun, Jun 26 2022, 9:17 am
amother [ Hydrangea ] wrote:
Unfortunately I relate and empathize. Same struggle. My son is13 and the whole family is terrified and traumatized. I can't believe this is my home and my family. It's heart wrenching
To the poster above, were did u send your son????


I cannot tell you where I sent my son as it would be easy to figure out who we are. I will tell you that we spoke with rabbi Strauss who is an expert at matching up boys with the right mesivta for them. He offers this service as a chessed and doesn’t charge. Speak to him and see what he would recommend for your son.
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amother




Blueberry
 

Post Sun, Jun 26 2022, 9:27 am
LALA2 wrote:
He takes karate and swimming. Doesnt help at all. He will refuse all meds. Rewards will be useless. He has an intense hatred for us that supercedes his drive for rewards. The only thing he wants now is tablet, constant fight between us and him about tablet. He also has warped ideas about frumkeit. I regret so much sending him to the well known frum yeshiva. It made him crazy. I need a relaxed frum boarding school focused on middos, discipline, and academics....anything out there like this in NYC AREA?


ALSO, those of you who suggest PANS treatment, do you have a doctor that delivers results???

Thank you all


We had that with the tablet too. It was password protected with only certain games downloaded. Every child got 45 minutes a day. After 45 minutes it shut off. It worked for a while until he would bully the other kids to give him their time. And then the unspeakable happened. Someone gave him a WiFi password and when he entered it he had free reign of the internet. All my passwords and filters didn’t matter. He bypassed it all. Unfortunately we didn’t realize right away. What he saw online was the worst possible time that a child can see. I threw out the tablet. I forced him back into therapy. The therapist told him that if his parents trigger him so much he has to stick up for himself. The therapist helped him relax with YouTube videos. Imagine I paid for that. This was a few years ago before he started mesivta. It’s constant turmoil with him.
I think he really could use meds. Op, your son probably could use it too. Maybe offer him supervised tablet time as a reward.
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LALA2




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Jun 26 2022, 10:42 am
amother [ Gladiolus ] wrote:
Agree with this.
I'm so very sorry for you, I can only begin to imagine your pain. I have a dc with similar struggles and I know it's pans. Craniosacral therapy and homeopathy have helped a lot. Is cst something you'd be willing to look into/would If comply?



Yes I would like to look into CST...can you suggest or pm me? Ty so much
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amother




Oak
 

Post Sun, Jun 26 2022, 10:58 am
Why do you fight about the tablet so much?
If it calms him down give him more screen time.

I think you should look for less things to fight about. Not more.
Who cares that his haskafos are weird now. Don't fight about it.
He needs to be regulated first. His spiritually will have to wait for the time being.
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