S/O high salaries | Imamother

amother

Mon, Jun 27 2022, 4:40 pm

On the other thread regarding Baltimore, it was stated who/how do people make sure high salaries.
Some fields (Nursing Homes -my pet peeve) came up.
Here was my response to some of the listed ones.
So as we talk about who draws high salaries, I want to say that we are here temporarily and Hashem knows who is yashar and generous.
I am sure there are many honest NH owners and administrators. I work NH adjacent and I see how some turn a bigger profit than others. In some, they make more money because of how understaffed and poorly the staff is paid. In some there is a lot of therapy fraud and taking advantage of therapist who are afraid to lose their job. I won’t mention the quality of food served -which also impacts the bottom line.

I have seen MDs who make a fortune because of how many patients they pack into their day. Are they extra hard working or do they rush their patients and are not as thorough?

Therapists who don’t take insurance-which is their prerogative of course, but how many people could use their help and expertise but they are not willing to help?

Is it nice if a manufacturer makes something really needed but then, as is his right, prices it so that it is a tiercha for others to buy when they really need (or have been convinced they need) it, especially when it costs him very little to produce?

I’m surprised nobody here bought up all the baby formula they could find and then sold it for $100 a can-look how much they could make.

Look, they’re are many people who earn a very, very nice living doing very honest work and not taking advantage of others, just saying that it is not always the case.

Tomato time!!! 🍅

ora_43

Tue, Jun 28 2022, 4:28 pm

Agree so much. I was really disturbed to see "nursing home administrator" described as a great way to make lots of money without any special training or education.

First off that is a highly skilled job, or else you're doing it wrong. I'm sure there are the rare few who can jump in and do a good job but there's a scary amount of room for people to miss very very important aspects of elder care, especially if their main focus is making money.

Second I'm all for people making a good living, but come on. The staff at those places make so so little. Very gross for a manager to be making McMansion money while the people who change the diapers and shower the dementia patients are on food stamps.

Are all nursing home managers bad, no, not at all. But I doubt the good ones would be describing it as a good way for someone with zero education to make great money.

ora_43

Tue, Jun 28 2022, 4:29 pm

amother [ Azalea ] wrote:

I don't get why this is worthy of conversation. Yes, there are less scrupulous ways of money. We, as Yidden, should try to be earning our parnassah in an ethical manner. Not everyone who had a high income gets their money unethically.

Because this particular unscrupulous way of making money costs lives.

amother

Blush

Tue, Jun 28 2022, 5:53 pm

ora_43 wrote:

I’m close to 2 AMAZING administrators- both dedicated, ratings in their homes improved dramatically once they started, their staff loves them (retention rate and reviews) etc. They each have only very basic education but I think there’s a lot of learning on the job- like a year or so of shadowing. There’s also a natural knack for management and I think that’s true across different industries.

amother

Tue, Jun 28 2022, 6:06 pm

Maybe the owners are the problem then?

I wish I could say nice things about the chains near me, but I really, really cannot.

Based on my position, I see many nursing home patients and I speak with them, see the environment and interact with staff regularly …. I am embarrassed for the people who own/run them, yet they are so proud of themselves and all the money they make. They seem to think they are smarter than everyone by making money off of providing inferior care.

zaq

Tue, Jun 28 2022, 8:35 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Look, they’re are many people who earn a very, very nice living doing very honest work and not taking advantage of others, just saying that it is not always the case.

Tomato time!!! 🍅

I disapprove of your post because the lion's share of it was examples of people who make big bucks through less than kosher means, thus making it sound as if nearly everyone who makes a great living is being dishonest or doing shoddy work. You tacked on the quoted sentence on almost as an afterthought. (FTR I am not one of those people making big bucks so I'm not personally offended; I am offended in principle.) Yes, there are many people who do shoddy work, overcharge, and employ shady business practices. There are also many people who:
-- work like dogs, and/or
-- were clever enough to go into a lucrative field, and/or
-- possess superlative skills or produce a superlative product and know enough to market them accordingly, or
--possess less than superlative skills or produce a less than superlative product but know the market and choose to target the sector that is willing to pay big bucks for what they offer.

Last edited by zaq on Wed, Jun 29 2022, 12:11 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Quince

Tue, Jun 28 2022, 9:34 pm

DustyDiamonds wrote:

I don’t know anything about nursing homes, but the wealthy people I know are in real estate.

Is it unethical if they own 10,000 units and rent them out for the market rate of $1500 each, if the owner is wealthy, yet the tenants are generally poor?

Some might argue yes. Most people on this forum would disagree. Ultimately it's not against halacha unless they are engaged in other problematic practices. Is elder neglect/abuse against halacha? Absolutely.

amother

Burntblack

Tue, Jun 28 2022, 9:41 pm

DustyDiamonds wrote:

What would be unethical about charging market value rates? It's not unethical to make money selling food either, even if people shopping are poor. Just don't be greedy about it, especially if you're the only option they have. There are ethics involved in how much you mark up items, especially essentials like food and shelter.

amother

Dandelion

Tue, Jun 28 2022, 11:37 pm

I have to agree with OP. I work adjacent to NH owners who are supposed to be the ‘good ones’ and I really thought that was the case. I got a rude awakening when they recently started getting more involved in my company. All quality of care is out the window, high turnover rate is expected, and that’s fine, for the almighty dollar. I could cry for the phenomenal care that my boss set up and his investors are now destroying, so they can make more money.

I was also recently on a conference call with a company that staffs doctors for nursing homes. The owner openly said, we all know that good doctors don’t work in nursing homes, let’s be real, we’re not here for quality care, we’re here for money. It’s shameful.

ora_43

Wed, Jun 29 2022, 4:10 am

DustyDiamonds wrote:

If it's literally 10,000 units, then yes, because that's a market rate that they themselves have a not-insignificant role in creating. Market rates aren't a heavenly decree, they're set by landlords. In a way that market rates aren't set by producers in most other industries - people can go without a third piercing or a coffee from Starbucks in a way they can't go without housing.

That, and: there are enough piercings and poorly made cappuccinos for all, while there's a limited supply of housing - and a poor person who has been paying 45% of their salary in rent is never, ever, in a million years going to be able to compete with a rich person who's been taking a share of 10,000 people's rent payments. So the landlords are setting the rate in both directions: both rent price, and purchase price (making their renters a captive market).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-landlord on principle. Renting is a better choice than buying for a lot of people, and it's good that there are rental units. Done right, it's a valuable service.

But it's another industry where you have to be careful to avoid slipping over the line from providing a service to exploitation (because of the above). And once you own a certain percentage of the housing you're over that line almost by default. JMHO.