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-> Parenting our children
-> Teenagers and Older children
amother
OP
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Mon, Jul 18 2022, 2:22 pm
My 14 year old son has stopped washing and benching because he says he's "too lazy"....or he will wash with a drop of water but not properly....and he doesnt really say brachos....it bother me alot and im not sure how to deal with it....any suggestions??
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amother
Forestgreen
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Mon, Jul 18 2022, 2:30 pm
Is this part of a bigger picture, or just this one issue? If it's this one issue you don't do anything. He has bechira, and it's up to him. If this is part of a bigger picture, also don't do anything about this issue.. but please do figure out how to help him with the big picture.
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amother
Sunflower
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Mon, Jul 18 2022, 2:31 pm
He does not sound lazy but rather angry. If so is he angry about? Does he have anyone to talk to a rebbe a therapist etc..?
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BrisketBoss
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Mon, Jul 18 2022, 2:35 pm
amother [ Sunflower ] wrote: | He does not sound lazy but rather angry. If so is he angry about? Does he have anyone to talk to a rebbe a therapist etc..? |
He doesn't sound either to me. He sounds plain unmotivated. It's a lot of effort and it's not important to him right now. A lot of people avoid eating bread sometimes just because they don't want to bensch.
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amother
Sunflower
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Mon, Jul 18 2022, 2:38 pm
The mother wrote ".or he will wash with a drop of water but not properly.." What is that about. I thought it sounded like a defiance.
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amother
Magnolia
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Mon, Jul 18 2022, 2:40 pm
amother [ Sunflower ] wrote: | The mother wrote ".or he will wash with a drop of water but not properly.." What is that about. I thought it sounded like a defiance. |
That just sounds like either he’s not motivated so going fast, or he’s washing for mom-so again-going quickly. Rather like kids who have to reminded to put clothes in hamper every day and end up leaving one item on floor
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amother
Hunter
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Mon, Jul 18 2022, 2:44 pm
So my 14-year old, who loves to learn and is in a good, healthy place overall, acts incredibly lazy sometimes. It's just his personality. He can put in tremendous effort when he's self-motivated to do so, but he has a hard time when I ask him to do something. Doesn't mean I never tell him he needs to do something, like clean his room or whatever, but since he has such a negative response I don't want that response to be related to avodas Hashem. So I try not to ask him to do something that's for his sake, not mine (like benching). Instead, I remind him like I would remind my husband ("Hey, isn't mincha at 2?" "Ooh, thanks, I didn't realize it was already 1:45!"), but not any more than that.
So for example, we've never "made" him bench. When he was younger, that meant that he almost never benched. We would say "Okay, everyone, come bench!" and if he didn't come, he didn't come. My husband (who is in chinuch) felt very strongly that we shouldn't push, and hopefully it would come naturally.
These days (since his bar mitzvah), we say "Okay, everyone, come bench!" and if he doesn't come, one of us will say about ten minutes later "Ohh, [name], reminder to bench!" and then walk away. He knows we won't "make" him if he doesn't come. But he almost always does. We also remind each other to bench like this (like if I'm nursing a baby and don't bench when my husband does, or on a regular weeknight if one of us gets distracted at the end of a meal), so it seems like a "normal" reminder to my son too.
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BrisketBoss
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Mon, Jul 18 2022, 2:47 pm
amother [ Hunter ] wrote: | So my 14-year old, who loves to learn and is in a good, healthy place overall, acts incredibly lazy sometimes. It's just his personality. He can put in tremendous effort when he's self-motivated to do so, but he has a hard time when I ask him to do something. Doesn't mean I never tell him he needs to do something, like clean his room or whatever, but since he has such a negative response I don't want that response to be related to avodas Hashem. So I try not to ask him to do something that's for his sake, not mine (like benching). Instead, I remind him like I would remind my husband ("Hey, isn't mincha at 2?" "Ooh, thanks, I didn't realize it was already 1:45!"), but not any more than that.
So for example, we've never "made" him bench. When he was younger, that meant that he almost never benched. We would say "Okay, everyone, come bench!" and if he didn't come, he didn't come. My husband (who is in chinuch) felt very strongly that we shouldn't push, and hopefully it would come naturally.
These days (since his bar mitzvah), we say "Okay, everyone, come bench!" and if he doesn't come, one of us will say about ten minutes later "Ohh, [name], reminder to bench!" and then walk away. He knows we won't "make" him if he doesn't come. But he almost always does. We also remind each other to bench like this (like if I'm nursing a baby and don't bench when my husband does, or on a regular weeknight if one of us gets distracted at the end of a meal), so it seems like a "normal" reminder to my son too. |
Love all of this. Seems like a good system.
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amother
Sunflower
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Mon, Jul 18 2022, 2:50 pm
amother [ Hunter ] wrote: | So my 14-year old, who loves to learn and is in a good, healthy place overall, acts incredibly lazy sometimes. It's just his personality. He can put in tremendous effort when he's self-motivated to do so, but he has a hard time when I ask him to do something. Doesn't mean I never tell him he needs to do something, like clean his room or whatever, but since he has such a negative response I don't want that response to be related to avodas Hashem. So I try not to ask him to do something that's for his sake, not mine (like benching). Instead, I remind him like I would remind my husband ("Hey, isn't mincha at 2?" "Ooh, thanks, I didn't realize it was already 1:45!"), but not any more than that.
So for example, we've never "made" him bench. When he was younger, that meant that he almost never benched. We would say "Okay, everyone, come bench!" and if he didn't come, he didn't come. My husband (who is in chinuch) felt very strongly that we shouldn't push, and hopefully it would come naturally.
These days (since his bar mitzvah), we say "Okay, everyone, come bench!" and if he doesn't come, one of us will say about ten minutes later "Ohh, [name], reminder to bench!" and then walk away. He knows we won't "make" him if he doesn't come. But he almost always does. We also remind each other to bench like this (like if I'm nursing a baby and don't bench when my husband does, or on a regular weeknight if one of us gets distracted at the end of a meal), so it seems like a "normal" reminder to my son too. | '
Does your son act incredibly lazy out of the home? Does he have anyone he talks to?
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amother
Hunter
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Mon, Jul 18 2022, 2:50 pm
To add, just for OP's sake, it isn't a reflection on you or your parenting that he's doing this. I really think it's normal, but for some kids and not all.
He has two brothers behind him in age, and both of them have always come to the table to bench. Neither is bar mitzvah just yet (they're 12 and 10). We did the same thing with them as we did with him, but in their case they wanted to "do the right thing and bench" much earlier, at least on Shabbos. The ten year old still sometimes doesn't bench during the week, if he gets up before we remind him and it's "too much trouble" to come back, but will always bench on Shabbos.
Did your son give you a hard time with davening too? My 14-year-old didn't daven with a minyan for all of Shabbos davening until just a couple of months before his bar mitzvah. My 12 year old started before him -- which means 2+ years in age before him -- and has now been going to three minyanim a day all week for almost a year, since he had just turned 11. Every kid is so different.
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amother
Hunter
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Mon, Jul 18 2022, 2:57 pm
amother [ Sunflower ] wrote: | '
Does your son act incredibly lazy out of the home? Does he have anyone he talks to? |
Yes, this is a middah he has to work on. He has ADHD (as do I), so some of it is not laziness, it's difficulty getting started, or staying focused, or whatever. But some of it is laziness, which I think is relatively age-appropriate (even though not every kid has this struggle at 14, from what I see if his classmates, many do).
He's very motivated to push himself in some areas -- learning, sports, things like that -- and very unmotivated about things like chores. I think that normal. I also think that it's normal that at this point in his development, unfortunately, benching "feels" like a chore to him. I am hopeful that with time he will outgrow this.
He was somewhat close with his 8th grade rebbe, but I don't think that most 8th grade boys have someone they talk to on a regular basis. My husband actually has a very good relationship with him, and he will talk with him sometimes, but not often from his own initiative. He will talk to me about things that are less personal, like a piece of news he heard from his classmates, or something he read that he's confused about.
Why? I'm not worried about him at this point, B"H.
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amother
Sunflower
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Mon, Jul 18 2022, 3:57 pm
amother [ Hunter ] wrote: | Yes, this is a middah he has to work on. He has ADHD (as do I), so some of it is not laziness, it's difficulty getting started, or staying focused, or whatever. But some of it is laziness, which I think is relatively age-appropriate (even though not every kid has this struggle at 14, from what I see if his classmates, many do).
He's very motivated to push himself in some areas -- learning, sports, things like that -- and very unmotivated about things like chores. I think that normal. I also think that it's normal that at this point in his development, unfortunately, benching "feels" like a chore to him. I am hopeful that with time he will outgrow this.
He was somewhat close with his 8th grade rebbe, but I don't think that most 8th grade boys have someone they talk to on a regular basis. My husband actually has a very good relationship with him, and he will talk with him sometimes, but not often from his own initiative. He will talk to me about things that are less personal, like a piece of news he heard from his classmates, or something he read that he's confused about.
Why? I'm not worried about him at this point, B"H. |
What would happen if you just sat him down and asked him what is going on. I don't want to be a nudge or a police women what can we do about this problem?
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amother
Trillium
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Tue, Jul 19 2022, 12:33 pm
Your husband could sit down every night and learned with him the sugya of washing in the texts itself.
"Droshas" and speeches just don't work
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amother
Hunter
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Tue, Jul 19 2022, 4:18 pm
amother [ Sunflower ] wrote: | What would happen if you just sat him down and asked him what is going on. I don't want to be a nudge or a police women what can we do about this problem? |
He hates having conversations like this. It makes him feel like we're giving him mussar. (Which isn't so far from the truth.) Odds are his answer will be something like "I dunno" or "I do bench all the time, you guys just don't realize it" or "I'll bench when I'm ready."
This way, he comes to it himself, because he wants to, rather than because we want him to.
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