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Forum
-> Fashion and Beauty
Rubies
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Wed, Jul 20 2022, 2:21 pm
Please share your knowledge about beauty (physical?) referenced in the Torah with its details and context.
So, "Torah learning is so beautiful!" : true but not what I mean.
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BrisketBoss
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Wed, Jul 20 2022, 2:50 pm
Only a few people are referred to as beautiful, as well as the cows in Paroh's dream. No natural land features or artificial structures are called beautiful.
There are two similar yet different phrases used for 'beautiful.' There is a piece I can send you about this, but it is not written by a rabbi nor does it cite any sources except the original text. You are forewarned.
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Thisisnotmyreal
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Wed, Jul 20 2022, 3:00 pm
Can you please explain a little more about what you are looking for?
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Thisisnotmyreal
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Wed, Jul 20 2022, 3:00 pm
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amother
Lemonchiffon
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Wed, Jul 20 2022, 3:36 pm
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Rubies
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Wed, Jul 20 2022, 5:53 pm
BrisketBoss wrote: | Only a few people are referred to as beautiful, as well as the cows in Paroh's dream. No natural land features or artificial structures are called beautiful.
There are two similar yet different phrases used for 'beautiful.' There is a piece I can send you about this, but it is not written by a rabbi nor does it cite any sources except the original text. You are forewarned. |
The cows? Really?
Don't send it. Need the collective minds of imamother.
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Rubies
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Wed, Jul 20 2022, 5:57 pm
Thisisnotmyreal wrote: | Can you please explain a little more about what you are looking for? |
Nothing specific.
I was thinking about the concept of beauty and realized I can't remember much of the concept being referenced in the Torah. It made me curious.
I'm thinking Sarah Imeinu was beautiful and so she was hiding in the box?
There is a midrash (?) that H' braided Chavah's hair prior to presenting her to Adam.
I'm looking for more of these.
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Elfrida
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Wed, Jul 20 2022, 6:00 pm
As far as I remember, only a few people are described as being beautiful, and it doesn't seem to be considered either positive or negative, so much as a fact. The main context seems to be that their beauty may prove a temptation to others, and where appropriate steps should be taken to minimize any risk.
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zaq
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Wed, Jul 20 2022, 6:06 pm
For a description of physical beauty that's as graphic as Scripture gets, see the Song of Songs. The female beloved is described as, or compared to, "a mare in Pharaoh’s chariots," with eyes like doves or like pools of Cheshbon, hair like a flock of goats, teeth like a flock of newly-washed, matched ewes, lips "like a crimson thread," a brow "like a pomegranate split open" neck like the Tower of David, nose like a Lebanon tower, beautiful as the moon, radiant as the sun and so on and so forth.
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imorethanamother
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Wed, Jul 20 2022, 6:34 pm
Rubies wrote: | Nothing specific.
I was thinking about the concept of beauty and realized I can't remember much of the concept being referenced in the Torah. It made me curious.
I'm thinking Sarah Imeinu was beautiful and so she was hiding in the box?
There is a midrash (?) that H' braided Chavah's hair prior to presenting her to Adam.
I'm looking for more of these. |
Rabbi Akiva Tatz discusses beauty in the Torah in a similarly titled shiur on his website. Simpletoremember.com.
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Thisisnotmyreal
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Wed, Jul 20 2022, 8:44 pm
Chava, Imahos, Yosef, Tziporah, and Esther are all beautiful.
Beauty and s-xuality are two separate themes and only in Mitzrayim (or other lewd cultures) does beauty= relations hence Sarah needing to be hidden because of her beauty. She was safe in a normal country because beauty is a virtue and it's own category and doesn't immediately mean s-xually attracting
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amother
Sand
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Wed, Jul 20 2022, 9:09 pm
Conflicting mefarshim as to whether or not Esther was beautiful. Some say she was not, but she had an inner charm that attracted people to her.
As far as Tzipporah, I think it depends how you translate the pasuk (again, different mefarshim).
Both Sarah and Yosef are all agreed upon to have been universally beautiful.
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etky
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Thu, Jul 21 2022, 2:16 am
So, going according to the pshat, here are some people whose countenances are described as attractive in Tanach:
Women: Sarah, Rivka, Rachel (described as yefat to'ar ANd yefat mareh), Avigayil (also uniquely described as intelligent), Bat Sheva, Avishag, Tamar (Amnon's sister), Esther
Men: Yosef, Shaul (described as very tall in a positive way), Avshalom, Adoniyahu, David (yefeh eynayim and tov roiy), Daniel and his 3 friends are described as tovey mareh
There might be others that I can't recall.
In any case, Tanach usually references physical appearance only when it is intrinsic to the narrative in some way.
The quality of physical beauty (along with deceptiveness) is also a particular family trait of the descendants of Rachel: Yosef, Shaul and Esther.
Sometimes the fact that a person's physical appearance is NOT described might also be telling.
For example - Michal - maybe explaining why David did not love her, and Ruth - highlighting the fact that her physical appearance had nothing to do with the events of the Megilla.
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amother
Daisy
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Thu, Jul 21 2022, 6:45 am
Rav Yisrael Herczeg discusses the significance of people being called beautiful in the Torah in his book "Patterns in Rashi". He has some shiurim about it online - he talks about the different personailty traits between Rachel and Leah. Can be found on youtube.
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advocate
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Thu, Jul 21 2022, 7:25 am
Chazal state that “Beautiful utensils, a beautiful home, and a beautiful wife expand a person’s mind.
Berachos 57b
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advocate
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Thu, Jul 21 2022, 7:49 am
Rabbi Yochanan would go and sit by the entrance to the ritual bath. He said to himself: When Jewish women come up from their immersion [after their menstruation,] they should see me first so that they have beautiful children like me
Brachos 20b
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amother
Lightyellow
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Thu, Jul 21 2022, 8:37 am
Shem Cham and Yafes.
Yafes is synonymous with beauty.
many tribes of Yafes merged with Esav (Shem)...
As we see, Germans (the epitome) of Esav are a beautiful people.
The European have the most physical beauty.
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Rubies
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Thu, Jul 21 2022, 3:12 pm
Elfrida wrote: | As far as I remember, only a few people are described as being beautiful, and it doesn't seem to be considered either positive or negative, so much as a fact. The main context seems to be that their beauty may prove a temptation to others, and where appropriate steps should be taken to minimize any risk. |
Can you share more about where see this?
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amother
Sand
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Thu, Jul 21 2022, 3:20 pm
amother [ Lightyellow ] wrote: | Shem Cham and Yafes.
Yafes is synonymous with beauty.
many tribes of Yafes merged with Esav (Shem)...
As we see, Germans (the epitome) of Esav are a beautiful people.
The European have the most physical beauty. |
What I understood Yafes's bracha to be, based on what I have read, was not literally being physically beautiful but having an appreciation for, producing, and valuing beauty--I.e. Greek art and philosophy, Roman architecture etc.
(As far as Germans/Europeans being the most beautiful people, that's based on modern construct, valuing blond hair, fair skin above all else, ironically buying into the Aryan idea of ideal beauty. Not everyone agrees with that.)
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