S/O how schools of different branches of Judaism deal with

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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling

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amother

Thu, Aug 04 2022, 11:05 pm

S/O of thread where Imas recall being hurt and embarrassed terribly for asking Hashkafa questions, and some here have been called Apikorsim.

How do schools of different branches of Judaism deal with students who want answers.

Its clear from posts here, that maybe not in all, but in many Bais Yaakov type schools, students are hesitant to ask Hashkafa questions because theres a chance theyll be called Apikorsim.

Is a Modox student ever embarrassed publicly for asking Hashkafa questions?

What happens to Chassidish students who ask a lot of questions?

tia

amother

Watermelon

Fri, Aug 05 2022, 1:20 am

I went to Bruriah (girls only, MO).
Questions were welcomed. I didn't know there was any other way till I got to seminary which was more to the right.

amother

Trillium

Fri, Aug 05 2022, 1:31 am

I was one of the posters who had something awful said to me. Standard BY
MO schools as a whole seem to have a healthier view of questions in Yiddishkeit.
That said, my Heimish high school welcomed questions too so idk maybe my elementary school just sucked

amother

Hunter

Fri, Aug 05 2022, 1:34 am

amother [ Watermelon ] wrote:

I went to Bruriah (girls only, MO).
Questions were welcomed. I didn't know there was any other way till I got to seminary which was more to the right.

I know 2 girls who were kicked out of bruriah for asking questions about homosexuality and "being suspected of being gay." They went to a lubavitch school instead and all questions and types are welcome there. But idk if that's standard in other chabad schools...

amother

Candycane

Fri, Aug 05 2022, 3:41 am

Chassidish. Was called an apikorus in class by my peers because I asked certain questions. Teacher did nothing to stop her. Had a teacher that actually said (in 12th grade no less) ס'איז immature צו פרעגן שאלות when we learned certain parts of chumash. What a missed opportunity for beautiful education. I was also taunted by some classmates that I'm gonna marry a yu guy with a beanie because I'm too progressive (they used the word bummy tho)
I was called eccentric by my family because I always did my own thing and colored out of the line. Was it hurtful to get a name as being 'a bum' in school because I had valid questions? A thousand percent. But it also made me the person I today. However, Hashem help any faculty member that would do something remotely similar to my kid.

sequoia

Fri, Aug 05 2022, 4:51 am

Bruriah is not MO.

shabbatiscoming

Fri, Aug 05 2022, 6:31 am

sequoia wrote:

Bruriah is not MO.

I was also scratching my head at that one.
Many of the girls who go there are MO but the staff is very much not.

shabbatiscoming

Fri, Aug 05 2022, 6:34 am

I went to a plain frum school and a dati lrumi sem. In both places questioning tthings was very much allowed and answered
It was a good thing too because during my sem year I had a major crisis in faith and if I would not have been able to ask questions, there is no doubt in my mind that I would not be frum today.

singleagain

Fri, Aug 05 2022, 6:44 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

I was also scratching my head at that one.
Many of the girls who go there are MO but the staff is very much not.

I went to Bruirah in the early aughts. It was MO but we joked it was a BY-wannabe

Nowadays it is a totally different school with a totally different administration.

amother

Azalea

Fri, Aug 05 2022, 7:40 am

I went to MO schools, not only are questions encouraged, they are often framed as the right way to do things. "Judaism is allll about the questions" or "in Judaism, the questions are more important than the answers". There are other issues, though, certain pressures that are just as damaging as anything supposedly happening in BY schools.

amother

Honeysuckle

Fri, Aug 05 2022, 7:55 am

Chabad school. We were encouraged to ask questions but we were always taught that it's less about what you ask and more about how you ask it. If you're asking for a fight, the teacher isn't going to waste time engaging with you, but if you're asking that same question because you want to understand, the teacher will answer and discuss

amother

DarkMagenta

Fri, Aug 05 2022, 8:12 am

Co-Ed MO schools-always encourage to ask respectful questions. You might be referred to someone else better suited to answer, but you were not ignored or put down.

DD went to Ma’ayanot and Machon Ma’ayan I believe both schools had the philosophy that questions especially about both haskafa and practice is what they are there for.

amother

Powderblue

Fri, Aug 05 2022, 11:26 am

Chassidish school, I got called an apikores by 4 different teachers
Got called names, told that I wasn’t frum because of the clothes I was wearing( it was a light grey too with white flowers in the shape of a heart)
My school experience was traumatizing. My parents ended up sending me to their rav since I asked the questions at home and they didn’t have the answers

amother

Jasmine

Fri, Aug 05 2022, 11:32 am

amother [ Hunter ] wrote:

I think people have had mixed experiences in Chabad schools with how students questions are received. Really depends on the school and invidivdual teacher. Probably has improved a lot over the years. Not everyone is a Manis Friedman.

amother

Cantaloupe

Fri, Aug 05 2022, 11:41 am

just ftr even other non orthodox groups ie "illegitimate non branches of judaism" which do unknowingly or knowingly teach apikorsus do not look favorably upon anyone student or parent asking questions and get ridiculed and savaged. "what you want to be ORTHODOX!" accompanied with a sneer
(one more mitzvah than we say or one more less and you are OUT!)

sorry to digress but want to give a frame of reference

B"H our kids' school are open to questions when sincere as another poster upthread noted in her school too

amother

Sage

Fri, Aug 05 2022, 11:42 am

BY school in Lakewood (not Bais Yaakov of Lakewood, just mean a standard BY school). It was the norm to be be called an apikores and any questions shut down. This was in the 90s. Hoping things have changed.

amother

Mintgreen

Fri, Aug 05 2022, 11:52 am

amother [ Candycane ] wrote:

What's wrong with coloring out of the line?
I love people who are intelligent. Judaism is a religion that has and gives answers. The fact is, Christianity is a religion that if you ask questions then there are no proper answers.I know because I learned about Christianity in school and I've watched things about religion.
My mother was also called אן אפיקורוס in front of the whole class in a Bais Yakov- anti chasidish school and my mother was a neb to begin with -with no friends before that already.
She B"h still remained frum etc. She got sharper and clear answers once I went to Bais brocho high school and my high school brought in project inspired to answer all the questions we had about Judaism and I'm very happy they did that!
ביסט א קלוגע פרוי און יא .
דו מעגסט און זאלסט טאקע פרעגן
This is not post ww2 anymore that anyone who asked such questions was considered a חולם ג. In order to rebuild after world war II they had to be like that because if one was religious then they're on the boat and if they're not religious they're not on the boat and that's how they were able to keep strong- today's days that doesn't work. Also asking such questions gave the teachers a sense that maybe one doesn't believe. It's not that my mother and you didn't believe, you did -you just wanted understand what you believe in which is totally fine and healthy!
https://youtu.be/NU3pSaeRooY

Rabbi Russel explains that whole theory why teens go off etc. In the link above.

There's a book called anvils of Sinai explaining a lot of things on emunah etc.
Btw
😂?yu boy וואס איז שלעכט מיט א
Lol

sallysaucer

Fri, Aug 05 2022, 12:00 pm

Went to a chassidish high school. I learnt very early on not to ask any questions, because the I would be considered "weird" by my teachers and classmates. I can look through my HS notes and see all the questions I noted in the margins but was afraid to ask (and yes, they weren't academic questions, I was BH a Alef student, they were more hashkafik or why questions).

Then when I went to BY Intensive seminary, and my classmates actually asked questions, it was such a refreshing change.

amother

NeonOrange

Fri, Aug 05 2022, 12:28 pm

I went to a chasidish HS in BP and all my questions were welcome. I had amazing teachers and had so many long hashkafic discussions to answer my questions (during class). I am so thankful I was able to ask and get answered. Not all my teachers were educated enough to answer all my questions and I subsequently found chassidus (Tanya) and began learning that later on in HS. I'm adding this post because I think it's important not to make any blanket assumptions about any Jewish "sects" (I'm not in denial that stereotypes exist for a good reason...).

amother

Hydrangea

Fri, Aug 05 2022, 12:41 pm

I went to a chassidish school and was regularly called an apikorus for asking questions. I was also ridiculed publicly for refusing to close the top button of my uniform shirt (major sensory issues. I hate collared shirts), even after arguing that the 'tznius button' is there for a reason. I'm not sure what chinuch they thought they were practicing but it backfired big time.

My son currently attends a Chofetz Chaim yeshiva high school. They didn't want to accept him but he marched in there and made a case for himself so they agreed to an interview. His first question was if they'll be willing to answer his questions or ridicule him for having them. The rabbis patiently sat with him for over 3 hours looking up sources to answer some of his questions. They accepted him to the school after that and although it's a lot frummer than we are, I wholeheartedly support them for being so respectful to the students.

My husband and I have been very careful in choosing schools for our kids. If they want to go to a frum school that's fine with us, so long as they're willing to HEAR what my kid has to say.

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