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My kids are so cruel. Oh, so cruel
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amother
OP


 

Post Mon, Aug 08 2022, 5:39 pm
They are so cruel to each other. While my husband and I may both not be the neighborhood chesed people, I like to think of ourselves as considerate , kind and decent people. Why, oh why (and how) did we ever end up with children who are just so cruel to each other? And seem to get pleasure out of the other getting hurt/punished/crying/whatever.

Please don't tell me this is normal child behavior, it's just beyond that. I was also once a child.

And now, for the million dollar question, how do I change it?!?!
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amother
Caramel


 

Post Mon, Aug 08 2022, 5:40 pm
Get professional advice.
Yes consistent intervention/program can change the dynamic IY”H
Hatzlocha

What you describe doesn’t sound “cruel oh so cruel” rather mean spirited petty too competitive etc
Would definitely get professional advice to help you
I’d think about what I want to reveal my goals for more kindness and to reveal their inner good nature
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amother
Daylily


 

Post Mon, Aug 08 2022, 5:47 pm
Set up a reward system. And lots of praise when you see them being kind. Positive reinforcement!!
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amother
Ginger


 

Post Mon, Aug 08 2022, 5:49 pm
I wish I had an answer for you. I just wanted you to know you're not the only one. If dh raises his voice to tell our ten year old he did something he shouldn't have our five year old starts crying. My sil's kids are just like yours. Dh and I see how mean they are to each other it and it bothers us but they're not our kids so we're just grateful we don't have to deal with it. I don't think it's because we're amazing parents and sil is doing everything wrong. I think some kids are just born more empathetic and some with more of a mean streak. It's figuring out how to raise them that's important. I hope you get some good help.
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amother
OP


 

Post Mon, Aug 08 2022, 7:18 pm
amother [ Caramel ] wrote:
Get professional advice.
Yes consistent intervention/program can change the dynamic IY”H
Hatzlocha

What you describe doesn’t sound “cruel oh so cruel” rather mean spirited petty too competitive etc
Would definitely get professional advice to help you
I’d think about what I want to reveal my goals for more kindness and to reveal their inner good nature


what type of professional would be able to help?
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amother
Steel


 

Post Mon, Aug 08 2022, 7:25 pm
A couple of suggestions. (And yes, this can be changed!)

1) do not (DO NOT) get involved in their bickering and pettiness

2) make them work it out themselves. Instead of separating them when they fight, put them in the same room and they can't come out until the OTHER person is happy. This works.

3) don't show too much investment in the process or in any progress you see. Keep the compliments light, matter of fact, casual. Ie: love how calm its been here. I got you guys some treats (small toys, etc)
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amother
Caramel


 

Post Mon, Aug 08 2022, 7:26 pm
Lots of choices
I’d start with a parenting mentor someone like Dina Friedman for example
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amother
Chartreuse


 

Post Mon, Aug 08 2022, 7:35 pm
amother [ Steel ] wrote:
A couple of suggestions. (And yes, this can be changed!)

1) do not (DO NOT) get involved in their bickering and pettiness

2) make them work it out themselves. Instead of separating them when they fight, put them in the same room and they can't come out until the OTHER person is happy. This works.

3) don't show too much investment in the process or in any progress you see. Keep the compliments light, matter of fact, casual. Ie: love how calm its been here. I got you guys some treats (small toys, etc)


🤣🤣

They’re just gonna beat each other up!! And then call their brother a baby for crying and say that he deserves pain and punishment. And then brother is gonna punch back because “if I don’t punch him, he’ll think it’s okay to punch me”
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amother
Steel


 

Post Mon, Aug 08 2022, 7:36 pm
amother [ Chartreuse ] wrote:
🤣🤣

They’re just gonna beat each other up!! And then call their brother a baby for crying and say that he deserves pain and punishment


At first, sure. But when they can't come out until the other is happy, magic ensues.
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amother
Chartreuse


 

Post Mon, Aug 08 2022, 7:38 pm
amother [ Steel ] wrote:
At first, sure. But when they can't come out until the other is happy, magic ensues.


Magic is bite marks and bloody scratches, then?

(This is not speculation, this is from real life experience)
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amother
Steel


 

Post Mon, Aug 08 2022, 7:40 pm
amother [ Chartreuse ] wrote:
Magic is bite marks and bloody scratches, then?


The bite marks and bloody scratches are there even out of the room, right? So hey, don't mock this until you've tried it. When you are calm and consistent with this method, it works magic.
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amother
Steel


 

Post Mon, Aug 08 2022, 7:41 pm
Alternatively, you can spend your whole life playing police. Which will it be?
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amother
OP


 

Post Mon, Aug 08 2022, 7:46 pm
amother [ Steel ] wrote:
At first, sure. But when they can't come out until the other is happy, magic ensues.


I'm gonna have to give this a try. its so baffling how they really love each other but then they can be so cruel, I literally want to cry.
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amother
Plum


 

Post Mon, Aug 08 2022, 7:49 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
They are so cruel to each other. While my husband and I may both not be the neighborhood chesed people, I like to think of ourselves as considerate , kind and decent people. Why, oh why (and how) did we ever end up with children who are just so cruel to each other? And seem to get pleasure out of the other getting hurt/punished/crying/whatever.

Please don't tell me this is normal child behavior, it's just beyond that. I was also once a child.

And now, for the million dollar question, how do I change it?!?!


you might have a kid like my husband who is naturally a fighter, competitive and always wanted to be the best.
As an adult he uses it to do great things and is considered a leader wherever he goes, but he always caused horrific fights amongst his siblings.
His siblings lived to tell them.
I know my mil had a hard time raising him cuz I have a son just like him.
We had no problem handling him because he is one before the youngest and my husband understood
the fierce fighting from day one.
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amother
DarkKhaki


 

Post Mon, Aug 08 2022, 9:59 pm
I grew up in a household which I felt was very unfair and wanted to change it. I took a parenting course that emphasized creating a home that speaks the language of shalom.

There are strict rules about hitting. You.are.not.allowed.to.hit.anyone. And they don't. Because we just don't do that. Do sometimes kids hit? Yeah, everyone's normal. But they stop fast.

We talk about shalom like a joke is only funny if its funny for both people. We use the word "also" like instead of I'm better than you, we can use also. I'm also good at it. Stuff like that.
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amother
DarkGreen


 

Post Mon, Aug 08 2022, 10:06 pm
Daven that your children should not fight. I heard that the Viznitz Rebbetzin A''H said that she always davened that her kids should not fight. You know what? Her sons are the only ones whose father was a rebbe and they did not split. They all became rebbes in their own towns and get along.

My kids also fight. I have no ideas for myself or for you, other than saying; please Hashem please please help my kids should get along because I cant.

Come to think of it, I think they didnt fight today BH, and I davened.

Good luck. Hashem is the only One who can control what they do.
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#BestBubby




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 08 2022, 10:20 pm
1. Don't compare kids or say "Why can't you be like your brother/sister?"

2. Make a No Hitting Rule - but try not to get involved in their fights.

I don't know about the kids in the room together - sounds scary.

I would separate and make both kids go to separate rooms for 10 minutes to cool down -
no judging who started it.

3. Kids write a thank you or a specific compliment for each kid. Screen them to
make sure they are not compliments that are really insults.

Kids take turns reading their compliments/thank you's out loud while eating ice cream
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amother
DarkYellow


 

Post Mon, Aug 08 2022, 11:37 pm
If it makes you feel any better, my grandmother always comented that my uncles used to fight all day and as adults they are best friends!
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familyfirst




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 08 2022, 11:47 pm
Having a hard fine with the “don’t get involved” bit of advice. There are some kids that are naturally more aggressive than other siblings, which could border on physical abuse. The weaker child may very well resent parents for years or forever for not getting involved.

This kind of advice only works if the playing field is even.

As soon as physical fighting starts, you physically separate them ( use strength if you need to), and put them into two separate rooms for some quiet time.
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#BestBubby




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 09 2022, 12:06 am
Re: Getting involved in kid's fights

Most experts advise not to get involved, as kids feel great resentment and jealousy when
parent sides with a sibling.

I read an account of a woman who has little to do with her mother. As a child she
did start most of the fights and her parents labeled her "the problem child."
As a short-cut, anytime there was a fight between her and her siblings, parents
automatically blamed this child and punished her - even when the other child was at fault.
The woman could never forgive her parents.

I read a letter to the editor about a mother who followed the expert's advice
not to get involved in her sons' fights. Years later, one of her son's is not talking
to the parents. The son blamed parents for not intervening, when older brother
was beating him up.

So looks like a lose-lose situation.

Parents are blamed if they get involved in fights, and blamed if they don't!

I say: Protect kids from getting beat up - separate them, but don't try to judge who
started it - it causes too much jealousy and resentment. And it takes a lot of the parent's
time to play judge and jury.
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