What would you tell this girl?

amother

Wed, Aug 10 2022, 1:40 am

I'm just wondering what some of you would think.

There is a young lady I know who is one year out of seminary. She has many wonderful qualities, an endearing personality and makes for a great role model. The type you would want for your kid's counselor in camp, or Bnos leader.

When she finished seminary, she was hoping to be a teacher. She loved the idea of making a difference in kids lives. She pictured herself being a teacher in the lower grades.

She got a job working in a school, but not as
a teacher. She was more like an assistant in the lower grades. She was also given a side job trachung 5th grade remedial class with just a few kids. The kids were very weak and she did wonderfully with them. But she wished she could be a real teacher.

At the end of the year, she let the school know that she would love a regular teaching job. She was hoping to get something like 3rd or 4th grade.

Now the school wants to offer her a job teaching a serious class. It's an 8th grade regular class, teaching Navi. Apparently, the school is desperate, being as it's so close to the school year. It's clear that the school loves her and considers her a huge asset.

Now this girl has a secret. She is very ashamed of the fact that she is a very slow reader. It takes her a long time to say a perek of tehillim. Additionally, she feels that she doesn't have enough textual skills to teach an older class. When she was in middle school and high school, she struggled a lot. She is a bright girl, who can understand concepts, but her skills are weak. She also feels that she doesn't have enough yedios to teach 8th graders a subject like Navi.

She thinks that the school doesn't know this about her. Her parents are teachers, and all her siblings are very smart. She always had a complex about being the dumb one on the family. And she thinks that the school just assumes she is as smart as everyone else in her family and that's why they offered her the job.

On the other hand, she always wanted a real teaching job and wonders if she really could be capable. She knows she would have to push herself really hard and prepare like crazy.

Or does she admit that this is above her capabilites, and turn down the offer.

What would you advise her?

ora_43

Wed, Aug 10 2022, 3:24 am

Wow that's a tough one.

I see this as two questions: should she, and can she?

Should she - ie, is this a good career move for her. It sounds like she likes, and is good at, working with younger kids. Does she want to work with 8th graders? Aside from being more official, is this job better in terms of salary, conditions, etc? Would working with 8th graders as a "real" teacher get her closer to the job she actually wants (working with younger kids) or not?

Working with 8th grade is pretty different from working with grade 3-4 so I'd first think carefully about whether this is a step in the right direction.

Can she - I get her concern, but I don't think she should automatically rule herself out. She's going to be a slower reader than some of her students in any case (even in 4th grade there are kids who read completely fluently), but that doesn't mean she doesn't have plenty to teach them.

If she decides that the answer to "should she" is yes, then I think she should look carefully at the curriculum. Does she fully understand the material? Does she know the subject even beyond the 8th grade material? Does she find the material interesting?

If it's a "yes" on all 3, then I'd say she should go for it. The main thing is that she herself understand the material, and a bit beyond it, well. It doesn't really matter how long it took her to learn it, or how long it'll take her to review each text before class (<- although she should take this into consideration when thinking about salary).

If she doesn't fully grasp the material herself, I think she needs to turn the job offer down. She can tell them she really appreciates the offer, etc, but this is one of her weaker subjects and she's not sure she can do it justice at a middle school level. (IOW - make sure it's clear she's saying she'd struggle to teach specifically Navi, specifically beyond elementary school, but that she's still a great teacher for other subjects/lower grades).

ora_43

Wed, Aug 10 2022, 3:33 am

In general, I'd encourage her to change her mindset about a couple of things.

One - this idea of a "real" teaching job... Of course she should aim for a job that's "real" in terms of things like title, pay, professional development, etc. But successfully teaching struggling elementary-level students is huge. That's something a lot of good teachers with "real" teaching jobs can't do. So I'd encourage her not to sell herself short. Her skill set is a very important one.

Two - this idea that she's secretly less smart than everyone thinks. You can't hide dumb. She might be slower at reading complicated texts in biblical Hebrew than people assume, but that's very very different from being less smart than they think. The staff at the school have met her and talked to her and seen her work, they know how smart she is, it's not about her family.

It's important for her (and her career) that she really internalize the idea that she's a smart person who struggles with this one thing. If she turns down the job it's 100% a "I don't have this specific skill" thing not a "I'm not that smart" thing.

naturalmom5

Wed, Aug 10 2022, 3:35 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Quitters never win

Winners never quit

If she is really serious about teaching, give it all you got
Whats the worst that can happen

Remember this poem

Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;

Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,

And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

imaima

Wed, Aug 10 2022, 3:42 am

naturalmom5 wrote:

The worst things that will happen is that she takes the job and is completely miserable because 8 grade is tough. They will figure out that she can’t read and make fun of her; they will be chutzpadik because they are 13.

She will her disencouraged and burn out quickly and will think she is not a good teacher while in fact she may be just not teaching teh age that is good for her. She will lose out and the school will lose out on a good elementary school teacher.

amother

Ecru

Wed, Aug 10 2022, 3:59 am

imaima wrote:

Agree, she should be smart and not take the job. She should simply say she loves teaching younger grades. She doesn't need to give any other reason. Besides the academic challenge they are also a behavioral challenge. She sounds like a wonderful young woman!

amother

Snapdragon

Wed, Aug 10 2022, 5:24 am

I would recommend she doesn't take the job. I am someone who has worked with only younger grades for years. I would never teach higher grades as I know my strengths and capabilities and it is too much for me to teach the older grades.
Teaching younger children is a whole different ball game to 8th grade. It is a tough age to teach at the best of times. Also a subject such as Navi has the ability to be a very boring subject when it isn't taught by someone who has a true passion for it. I remember as a young teen being taught Navi by a teacher who didn't have a passion and it was a class for all of us to misbehave and play around. Then we had another teacher who you could see she loved Navi and we loved the class and it was really interesting.
And as someone else said, teaching remedial students is a major skill and she could do more in that field if she wanted. Some teachers are better at teaching small groups rather than a whole class.

amother

NeonYellow

Wed, Aug 10 2022, 7:50 am

I've been teaching for many years. Absolutely nothing wrong with telling a school your preference is for lower grades or older grades. Every teacher has their strengths and preferences and different skills are needed for each. The school won't see that as a weakness, at all.
If they want her that badly, they will keep her in mind for when a lower grade position opens up. (And that happens even in the middle of the year, more than you'd think.)That said, it's very unusual for an assistant to get offered a classroom position without first teaching a model lesson or maybe doing subbing in different classrooms in the approximate grade level--which gives both the school as well as the prospective teacher an idea if it will work. It's better that way. TBH, I've seen assistants move up to classrooms lead teaching and really flounder. It takes a completely different set of skills than assisting does.
Unless she's desperate for a job, let her hold out till something opens up that she's interested in. This isn't the only school around, either, and with a big teacher shortage it won't be hard to find. And maybe she can do some subbing here and there to see what grade level she prefers. It may or may not be 8th grade.

amother

Ballota

Wed, Aug 10 2022, 8:00 am

imaima wrote:

Agree!!!

I’ve seen this exact scenario go down hill with a good friend of mine.

She should start in a place she is more confident in and then move upwards as she gains experience.

amother

Burntblack

Wed, Aug 10 2022, 10:27 am

My son had the most wonderful teacher when he was in fourth grade. She was a veteran teacher with many many years of experience. One year the school was in a real crunch and they persuaded her to teach seventh grade math. At the time she confided in me that she really did not want to do it, but they had really pressured her. Long story short it was a disaster, it wasn't her strong point, she was miserable, the class made her miserable etc. She ended up leaving the school where she taught for many years and going elsewhere. In the end no one was happy.

It is important in life to recognize one's strong points and one's weakness and make decisions accordingly. There is no shame in realizing that something is not a fit. If in the future she wants to pursue something that requires strong reading aptitude she can always work on her skills. But being pressured into doing something may make the school happy in the short run, but look at the long term picture as well.

amother

Aster

Wed, Aug 10 2022, 10:33 am

Wow, so I'm not the only one? This is so unexpected.

That is me. I was an excellent student and taught for quite a few years, now I'm in school administration and a mother of quite a few kids but my Kriah is terrible. I read accurately but with the fluency of a 5th grader. Ironically, I've helped develop Kriah programs and materials.

I wouldn't teach any text based subject above 6th grade for this reason. I practiced my pessukim before teaching them and more often than not was calling on students to read anyway so I made it through my teaching years without anyone knowing. But middle school and high school you can't do that, you need to be very comfortable reading in lashon hakodesh on the fly.

Wishing her much hatzlacha

amother

Honeydew

Wed, Aug 10 2022, 10:44 am

She shouldn't take the job.

Her dyslexia has really nothing to do with it except that OP has indicated that her actual knowledge of the subject is not strong. I can't imagine a parent wanting their children to be taught by ANY teacher who lacks strong knowledge of the subject matter whatever the reason is.

She can decline the position without revealing why she feels that she doesn't feel it would be a good fit.

I also don't understand an education system that has a 19 year old actually teaching elementary school children because she is "good with children". My mother was an elementary school teacher and had a degree in Early Education plus a teaching license which included student teaching under supervision. And I am not even getting into that her ability to be an effective teacher improved as she gained experience. It is insulting to teachers that someone can be a teacher just because theoretically the subject they are teaching is "third grade" level.

ora_43

Wed, Aug 10 2022, 11:51 am

amother [ Honeydew ] wrote:

I also don't understand an education system that has a 19 year old actually teaching elementary school children because she is "good with children". My mother was an elementary school teacher and had a degree in Early Education plus a teaching license which included student teaching under supervision. And I am not even getting into that her ability to be an effective teacher improved as she gained experience. It is insulting to teachers that someone can be a teacher just because theoretically the subject they are teaching is "third grade" level.

To be fair nobody starts with experience. She'll get better with time but there's nothing insulting about one teacher having 30 years of experience while their colleague has 0, that's just how it is.

And it sounds like she did start as a student teacher. It also sounds like not just any young woman her age would be getting this job offer - she's getting it after a year of demonstrating high ability.

The question of whether you need a degree to be a good teacher is a whole other can of worms... I'll just say that I don't think the fact that a job can be done without having a certain degree, makes that degree less important or valuable.

amother

Honeydew

Wed, Aug 10 2022, 12:19 pm

ora_43 wrote:

This could only occur in a system that doesn’t value professionalism or education.

How could a girl one year out of high school possibly have the skill set to be a competent teacher. She lacks both the education and experience as her experience is limited to one year of assisting someone.

Frankly I would consider her only adequate as a nanny for a toddler based on her being *good* with children and professional nannies actually receive more professional training.

I would never dream of having my children in a school where the teacher wasn’t professionally educated with at least a BA. This young girl is fit to be an assistant in a classroom with a real teacher with both experience and degrees.

I know lots of licensed teachers and their level of knowledge on teaching far surpasses any 19 year old who is good with children. What does that really even mean. I know teenage babysitters who are good with children but they aren’t qualified to teach. They make good camp counselors but that isn’t the same as being an excellent teacher.

Do you really think anyone can teach. Why can’t anyone who talks well be a speech therapist? I listen well - should I start charging as a therapist?