Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Inquiries & Offers -> Israel related Inquiries & Aliyah Questions
Moving to Ramot?
Previous  1  2  3  Next



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

amother
OP


 

Post Tue, Sep 06 2022, 8:38 pm
Shabbatiscoming--thanks!

I hope I am not coming across as one of those people who asks a question and then just won't accept the answer, but---

Can it be that it is different depending on which direction you are going?

For the past few years I have been driving nearly every morning from Jerusalem to Beitar through the tunnels and almost never did I have traffic on the way to Beitar. (Maybe five minute's worth, on a weekday vs on a Friday morning when the roads are mostly empty.) On the way HOME from Beitar to Jerusalem (depending on what time that was that I finally made my way back, sometimes it was already late enough to miss it) there was often traffic.

So in this case, driving would be getting on the Begin earlier--would it be so much worse? The direction would still be the same direction I've been going till now.

And obviously the actual driving in Ramot and trying to get out of Ramot. I remember talking to someone a few years ago who lived in Ramot and worked in Har Hatzofim. He said that although he could see his workplace for his home, he had terrible traffic getting there in the morning. So--how bad is it exactly and is it still just as bad? Is there any way to evade this? (I don't know where in Ramot he lived.)

My other thing I wonder is, is how different would it be for a bus vs a private car? My friend in Ramot told me that there are bus lanes in the mornings so the buses can go more quickly--does this actually make a difference?

And my more general question is, do none of the apps factor in time of day and typical traffic into their estimates? I.e. is the only way to see what this would be like to actually go there early in the morning and try it?
Back to top

amother
Snow


 

Post Tue, Sep 06 2022, 8:55 pm
OP, getting from Ramot to Gilo in the mornings will take at least an hour. At least. I don't know what the apps say. I live in Ramot - I wrote this upthread, traffic on kvish ramot in the mornings going into town is a nightmare. There are times in the morning where you can't even get on to Begin because the traffic is almost at a standstill. Buslanes are currently closed in some of the road at the moment because of the building for the rakevet hakala so even that doesn't help. If there are buses direct from tzomet ramot that could be a good solution. If you leave ramot before 7:30 there won't be as much traffic. Coming back at 4pm you hit rush hour in the opposite direction. But it's still at least an hour.

I would also say, I'm not sure where in Ramot you are looking but there aren't that many English speakers in most areas of Ramot. There is a pocket in Ramot Bet which seems to be growing all the time and some in Ramot Dalet and Polin. If you want to be near English speakers, you are going to have to be very choosy about where you live.

Sending your kids to school out of yerushalayim could be a disaster socially out of school. It's something to take into account. Most kids learn pretty close to home, although it isn't a blanket rule and are friendly with their school friends out of school hours.

The weather in Ramot is great and the air is so much fresher than the center of town, it's green, it's quiet. It's really suburban living.
Back to top

amother
Snow


 

Post Tue, Sep 06 2022, 9:01 pm
amother OP wrote:
Shabbatiscoming--thanks!

For the past few years I have been driving nearly every morning from Jerusalem to Beitar through the tunnels and almost never did I have traffic on the way to Beitar. (Maybe five minute's worth, on a weekday vs on a Friday morning when the roads are mostly empty.) On the way HOME from Beitar to Jerusalem (depending on what time that was that I finally made my way back, sometimes it was already late enough to miss it) there was often traffic.

So in this case, driving would be getting on the Begin earlier--would it be so much worse? The direction would still be the same direction I've been going till now.

And obviously the actual driving in Ramot and trying to get out of Ramot. I remember talking to someone a few years ago who lived in Ramot and worked in Har Hatzofim. He said that although he could see his workplace for his home, he had terrible traffic getting there in the morning. So--how bad is it exactly and is it still just as bad? Is there any way to evade this? (I don't know where in Ramot he lived.)



Leaving Jerusalem from Gilo and leaving from Ramot are two different worlds. Going from Ramot towards Begin could take you 20 -40 minutes in the morning.

From Ramot until Har chotzvim is crazy in the mornings. Begin from Kvish Ramot to Knisa Lair is also crazy in the mornings.

OP, your best bet is to try it. Get to Ramot at 7:30am one standard weekday and drive it. See what happens.

I hear you don't want to unsettle your kids. But the long commute is grueling. What kind of schools would you be looking for?
Back to top

ProudMommie




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 06 2022, 9:49 pm
I lived in Ramot Alef for almost 5 years... you can reach out to me anytime. I will tell you what I know.. but not about the commute, which will obviously be exhausting...

If your kids are happy in their schools, please don't move them and really feel super blessed, because you are BH.. School success or lack thereof is the biggest issue for olim..

Ramot is nice in many ways but you have to understand what you are getting into.. I personally love Ramot but you have to know all the nuances about it..

And no, Ramot has only a few pockets of americans, but the feel is very israeli..
Also..as far as heat, you get used to it eventually ...with Hshem's help. Trust me. I live in RBS and I thought I would never adjust to the heat.. but I absolutely did.
Back to top

DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 06 2022, 9:57 pm
SG18 wrote:
Is it legal to break the rental contract like this?

That's what I am wondering.
Back to top

shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 06 2022, 10:49 pm
amother OP wrote:
Shabbatiscoming--thanks!

I hope I am not coming across as one of those people who asks a question and then just won't accept the answer, but---

Can it be that it is different depending on which direction you are going?

For the past few years I have been driving nearly every morning from Jerusalem to Beitar through the tunnels and almost never did I have traffic on the way to Beitar. (Maybe five minute's worth, on a weekday vs on a Friday morning when the roads are mostly empty.) On the way HOME from Beitar to Jerusalem (depending on what time that was that I finally made my way back, sometimes it was already late enough to miss it) there was often traffic.

So in this case, driving would be getting on the Begin earlier--would it be so much worse? The direction would still be the same direction I've been going till now.

And obviously the actual driving in Ramot and trying to get out of Ramot. I remember talking to someone a few years ago who lived in Ramot and worked in Har Hatzofim. He said that although he could see his workplace for his home, he had terrible traffic getting there in the morning. So--how bad is it exactly and is it still just as bad? Is there any way to evade this? (I don't know where in Ramot he lived.)

My other thing I wonder is, is how different would it be for a bus vs a private car? My friend in Ramot told me that there are bus lanes in the mornings so the buses can go more quickly--does this actually make a difference?

And my more general question is, do none of the apps factor in time of day and typical traffic into their estimates? I.e. is the only way to see what this would be like to actually go there early in the morning and try it?
The traffic from ramot to beitar is before you even get onto begin. Its from ramot until the highway. And it can be 20+ minutes of traffic. And no, there is no way to get out of the traffic from ramot towards the highway and town. There is one way out.
In terms of bus or car, so car is straight and would be for sure an hour if not more. But the buses, youd have to get a bus to the tachana merkazit and then a bus to beitar, so probably the same amount of time.
Back to top

amother
Impatiens


 

Post Tue, Sep 06 2022, 11:13 pm
SG18 wrote:
Is it legal to break the rental contract like this?

As far as I know (and I am not a lawyer, just familiar with the laws), yes.

He is not allowed to break the rental contract to rent it to someone else.

But her landlord said that he is LOOKING to sell - he is not selling right now. He is also allowed to sell and she has to show the apartment if he requests her to.

There is no prohibition against a landlord selling a rental apartment.

What she might be able to do is sue for being misled into signing on a year when the owner wanted to sell before he rented it to her. I.e. sue for mekach ta'ut. But she would have a very hard time proving his intentions and I am not sure her case would stand up in court, since he does have a right to sell whenever he wants (and probably has his reasons for only deciding to sell now). In addition, he seems to be giving her ample warning - he told her when he started thinking about it, not when he was actually in the middle of actively looking or signing with someone.

OP also said she could technically buy the apartment off her landlord - more proof that he is not doing anything wrong.
Back to top

DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 06 2022, 11:18 pm
amother Impatiens wrote:
As far as I know (and I am not a lawyer, just familiar with the laws), yes.

He is not allowed to break the rental contract to rent it to someone else.

But her landlord said that he is LOOKING to sell - he is not selling right now. He is also allowed to sell and she has to show the apartment if he requests her to.

There is no prohibition against a landlord selling a rental apartment.

What she might be able to do is sue for being misled into signing on a year when the owner wanted to sell before he rented it to her. I.e. sue for mekach ta'ut. But she would have a very hard time proving his intentions and I am not sure her case would stand up in court, since he does have a right to sell whenever he wants (and probably has his reasons for only deciding to sell now). In addition, he seems to be giving her ample warning - he told her when he started thinking about it, not when he was actually in the middle of actively looking or signing with someone.

OP also said she could technically buy the apartment off her landlord - more proof that he is not doing anything wrong.

I seem to recall, back when I was renting, that I had to sign a lease for a certain time (1 year, 2 years, whatever). The rent amount was written into the contract, and the payment schedule, etc. I don't *think* my landlord could have sold the apartment and kicked me out before that time. assuming I was holding up my end of the contract.

At least that doesn't sound right....
Back to top

amother
Impatiens


 

Post Wed, Sep 07 2022, 12:27 am
DrMom wrote:
I seem to recall, back when I was renting, that I had to sign a lease for a certain time (1 year, 2 years, whatever). The rent amount was written into the contract, and the payment schedule, etc. I don't *think* my landlord could have sold the apartment and kicked me out before that time. assuming I was holding up my end of the contract.

At least that doesn't sound right....

So the thing is that when he sells, if you want to stay, the new landlord has to allow you to stay. (I think.) But the landlord can definitely sell.

סימן ה': הוראות שונות
זכות השוכר כלפי צד שלישי
21. (א) משהוקנתה זכות השכירות לשוכר, כוחה של הזכות יפה כלפי כל אדם.
(ב) המשכיר רשאי להקנות את זכותו במושכר לאחר (בסעיף זה – הרוכש); עשה כן, יבוא הרוכש במקומו של המשכיר לעניין הזכויות והחיובים של המשכיר על פי חוזה השכירות ועל פי דין, גם אם הרוכש לא ידע על קיום חוזה השכירות.
(ג) טענה שיש לשוכר כלפי המשכיר בשל אי-קיומם של חיובים שהיו מוטלים על המשכיר לפני השלמת ההקניה כאמור בסעיף קטן (ב), תעמוד לו גם כלפי הרוכש.

https://www.nevo.co.il/law_htm.....9.htm
Back to top

chanchy123




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 07 2022, 12:36 am
DrMom wrote:
I seem to recall, back when I was renting, that I had to sign a lease for a certain time (1 year, 2 years, whatever). The rent amount was written into the contract, and the payment schedule, etc. I don't *think* my landlord could have sold the apartment and kicked me out before that time. assuming I was holding up my end of the contract.

At least that doesn't sound right....

I’m pretty sure he can sell the apartment without evicting her - the ownership would change, but OP would stay on as a renter until the end of her contract.
Actually, I remember that when I was renting in Jerusalem, my homeowner wanted to sell during the middle of our one-year contract, and we also considered buying the apartment off of him. ultimately, we decided not to, and we moved elsewhere.
In hindsight, buying that apartment would have been an excellent financial step.
Back to top

SG18




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 07 2022, 12:43 am
DrMom wrote:
I seem to recall, back when I was renting, that I had to sign a lease for a certain time (1 year, 2 years, whatever). The rent amount was written into the contract, and the payment schedule, etc. I don't *think* my landlord could have sold the apartment and kicked me out before that time. assuming I was holding up my end of the contract.

At least that doesn't sound right....


I signed a lease recently. Both sides committed to a year, and we actually had to give all checks upfront (which is unlike in the US, probably because the mail here is so slow). This is why I'm surprised that it's allowed. Unless OP knew he wanted to sell when she moved in.

That would make more sense, to not be evicted and have the new owner as landlord for the duration of the lease.
Back to top

amother
OP


 

Post Wed, Sep 07 2022, 1:34 am
Thank you everyone!

I think I have to get to know the roads a little better and maybe indeed drive out there at 7 in the morning to experience it for myself. There are definitely bus routes that don't require switching at the central bus station. (They are Kavim buses, not Egged... Maybe that is a distinguishing factor? They are mostly not the same routes that go to the rest of the Gush.) But I probably have to dig a little deeper to understand where the traffic problematic spots are and exactly how bad they are, and maybe then I can ask more intelligent questions.

I may be choosing between a lot of less than ideal choices: change my kids schools, or live somewhere where I really don't want to (and I am not sure my kids will love living long-term either), or live without a community/social connections/shul where my husband is happy, or deal with heavy commutes...

Re it being a social disaster for my kids to live far from their classmates--we're already doing it, so it can't really get worse in that regard. My kids are also not the only ones in their schools traveling from out of Beitar. They have classmates from Kiryat Arba, Beit Shemesh, and as far as Givat Ze'ev (though not many coming from that far!).

Thank you ProudMommie, I will PM you.

About the lease--we signed for one year and the landlord isn't kicking us out sooner than that, just starting to look for a buyer. So I don't think he's doing anything illegal. The only thing that I think was underhanded in what he did was that he told us when we were negotiating the lease that he would tile the roof and put a ladder so that we could store things up there (because he has his own things stored in the machsan associated with the apartment).

When we came to the apartment the day before we moved to clean in preparation, we found the work just getting started and tons of dust everywhere--to the point that there was no point in us cleaning. The workers stayed (including dust, noise, early entries and late departures, and just traipsing in and out) for more than a week! And since the work wasn't completed before we came, we needed to keep everything in the actual apartment including all the parts of the Keter shed, instead of having our movers build it and put everything upstairs. Basically it was a big pain. But fine. The thing that annoys me is that only AFTER that was all done did he tell us he plans to sell. It seems to me that he tiled the roof only for the resale value (doesn't really make sense that he would do it just for us) but didn't have the guts till it was done to tell us that he plans to sell.

I overheard him talking to the kablan about redoing the floors while we are living here, too ("do one part of the house at a time"). The kablan told him no way. But if the kablan had been willing, I wouldn't have been shocked if he had told us he wanted to "give us new floors" and only afterwards tell us he plans to sell.

But whatever... it doesn't make any practical difference. Practically speaking, we have to plan to be out of here at the end of the year. And we are exhausted from moving from rental to rental. Every time requires figuring out transition days (in this case we had a gap of 3.5 weeks between apartments), different appliances, closets, etc. as needed, internet and water bar hookup, etc. etc. etc. That's all on top of the actual packing and unpacking. But yes, we have a year.
Back to top

shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 07 2022, 1:47 am
amother OP wrote:
Thank you everyone!

I think I have to get to know the roads a little better and maybe indeed drive out there at 7 in the morning to experience it for myself. There are definitely bus routes that don't require switching at the central bus station. (They are Kavim buses, not Egged... Maybe that is a distinguishing factor? They are mostly not the same routes that go to the rest of the Gush.) But I probably have to dig a little deeper to understand where the traffic problematic spots are and exactly how bad they are, and maybe then I can ask more intelligent questions.
Even if there is a bus straight from ramot to beitar, it will still have to go through both ends with traffic, the entrance to ramot to be able to leave, thats a good 20 minutes, and then into the tunnel. And the same on the way home. Its not going to be all that different. Straight bus or not, they still have to sit in that traffic.
Back to top

chanchy123




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Sep 07 2022, 1:58 am
So basically you’re saying that the kids go to a school that draws students from all over and you’re looking for a community that you would feel comfortable living in - even if it’s relatively far.
Back to top

amother
OP


 

Post Wed, Sep 07 2022, 1:59 am
shabbatiscoming wrote:
Even if there is a bus straight from ramot to beitar, it will still have to go through both ends with traffic, the entrance to ramot to be able to leave, thats a good 20 minutes, and then into the tunnel. And the same on the way home. Its not going to be all that different. Straight bus or not, they still have to sit in that traffic.


Yes, you're right.

Sigh.

I had no idea it would be so complicated to find our place.
Back to top

amother
Indigo


 

Post Wed, Sep 07 2022, 2:07 am
maybe consider RBS - the commute to beitar is relatively easy from there. many ppl commute daily from one to the other. the weather is probably not as nice as in ramot, but the community is great Smile
also the prices are pretty high now.
Back to top

amother
Oldlace


 

Post Wed, Sep 07 2022, 2:09 am
Live in beitar. There is the 237 that goes down golda meir from givat zeev through ramot. The hard part I would see in that direction would be from ramot to begin and possibly on begin also. Once you get to kvish haminharot it shouldn't be so bad. At a non traffic time it takes about 40 minutes from the ramot mall. The way home can possibly have more traffic because there are still a lot of people going to yerushalayim from beitar in the afternoon.
From beitar to rechovot there are definitely no direct buses.
Back to top

amother
Snow


 

Post Wed, Sep 07 2022, 2:10 am
chanchy123 wrote:
So basically you’re saying that the kids go to a school that draws students from all over and you’re looking for a community that you would feel comfortable living in - even if it’s relatively far.


OP how about starting from here? What kind of community are you looking for? Even if you decide on Ramot, Ramot is huge, made up of at least 20 different communities.
Back to top

amother
OP


 

Post Wed, Sep 07 2022, 2:11 am
chanchy123 wrote:
So basically you’re saying that the kids go to a school that draws students from all over and you’re looking for a community that you would feel comfortable living in - even if it’s relatively far.


Yes, I guess I am saying that.

I mean, I want to clarify a bit. The school does have mostly local Beitar kids. Just not exclusively. Like, there are still sometimes events in the afternoon and on Shabbat, it's just understood that not all the kids would be able to attend, or they'd have to sleep over at a classmate in order to attend. And obviously the non-local kids miss a certain amount of freestyle socializing.

I just remembered another of my kids' classmates comes from Bat Ayin. There's also a Neve Daniel contingent. And one or two from Efrat. Several from different parts of Jerusalem.

Still, a grueling commute is a grueling commute. I heard that the Kiryat Arba kid wasn't planning to come back this year because it is so hard for her to travel so much, but is back again in the end.

I would hate to do that to my kids, but it is a really good school and they've already had enough upheaval in their lives.

But it's also not good for them that I don't have local friends/acquaintances even a friendly WhatsApp group to get recommendations or information from.

Which reminds me I wanted to clarify what I meant about wanting to be around English speakers--I am fine being surrounded by mostly Israelis. And my Hebrew is actually pretty good. I can understand pretty much anything and get by in stores, when I go to the doctor or whatever. What I can't seem to do is casual chit-chat... It's just too hard for me to make the light small talk, by the time I think of what I would want to say, the moment has passed. Or if I want to ask or communicate something subtle, I can't really do it... And maybe culturally there are things that I'm not getting or not adept at. So in practice I am not making friends easily with Israelis. And so let's say then I'm looking for a playgroup for my toddler, I have very few acquaintanceships on which to draw in terms of networking... I am not really lonely day-to-day because I have my non-local friends, but it's kind of a strange way to live a life. I would like to feel a little more "embedded" where I live.
Back to top

amother
OP


 

Post Wed, Sep 07 2022, 2:13 am
amother Indigo wrote:
maybe consider RBS - the commute to beitar is relatively easy from there. many ppl commute daily from one to the other. the weather is probably not as nice as in ramot, but the community is great Smile
also the prices are pretty high now.


Thanks! We are considering that too. My husband doesn't really want to though...
Back to top
Page 2 of 3 Previous  1  2  3  Next Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Inquiries & Offers -> Israel related Inquiries & Aliyah Questions

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Moving to LKWD - work remote or look for new job
by amother
5 Yesterday at 1:32 pm View last post
Moving
by amother
2 Sat, Mar 16 2024, 8:26 pm View last post
Moving to Lakewood - what to know
by amother
35 Tue, Mar 12 2024, 11:19 am View last post
Insurance - moving ny to nj
by amother
1 Sun, Mar 10 2024, 7:25 am View last post
Moving boxes especially for seforim- where?
by amother
5 Wed, Mar 06 2024, 4:04 pm View last post