How do you marry off kids when you're unable to save?

amother

Ebony

Fri, Sep 09 2022, 10:04 am

I got a small but beautiful diamond ring (1.5k) a modest bracelet and necklace in the yichud room. Machzorim, a siddur, a tehillim, and that's it. No leichter. Wedding was a takkanah wedding which cost about 10k. Split between the parents. Then there was cost of gowns hair and make up. We didnt get our household set up. We got a folding table and some chairs from my in laws basement, some other furniture people were giving away free or for very cheap. Bh we were happy. I hope to be able to offer my kids more but I guess well have to see where were holding. I guess since I did not receive a huge lavish wedding I feel fine not providing it.

amother

Cerulean

Fri, Sep 09 2022, 11:43 am

mra01385 wrote:

I totally agree with the other posters regarding hishtadlus and bitachon. It’s hard not to worry about where the money will come from, but if you and your husband are both doing the best hishtadlus that you can then Hashem will take care of the rest if he feels that you need it for the right reasons. (Yeshiva tuition, basic living expenses, yomtov etc) You just need to daven and Hashem will take care of the rest. I have had instances where I didn’t know where I was going to get the money for something and then out of the blue extra money comes like from stimulus checks, extra unexpected money from camp scholarships, etc.

Huh?? Many many people have money for the "wrong things", fancy cars, fancy house??
And even bad things like drugs, prostitution.

I'm sorry but this logic makes no sense.

However, I am working every day to strengthen my emunah. I believe Hashem sees and orchestrates every financial hardship. I ask for it to be easier. For us to have enough to pay off our debts rather than going into debt monthly. Right now he is saying no. Having emunah doesn't mean he will always say yes. What it does mean is that I don't worry, I just do the best I can and talk to Hashem all the time. Try to build a relationship with Hashem. The rest is up to him, there are no guarantees in life ever, not even a well padded bank account. It feels like it's us, but it's not.

But please don't go telling people they will be helped for the "right things" I know many people who don't have money for basic living expenses (tuition, yomtov).

happy7

Fri, Sep 09 2022, 1:12 pm

amother Purple wrote:

Just a clarification.
Have Bitachon and Hashem will send the money if He thinks it's the right thing .
Having Bitachon doesn't guarantee anyone money.
I really hate when people throw out Bitachon as a guarantee. It's not.

Actually, This is NOT what is says in Chovos Halevavos. True Bitachon is believing that Hashem WILL send you the money because YOU think it’s the right thing.

amother

Periwinkle

Fri, Sep 09 2022, 2:18 pm

happy7 wrote:

Actually, This is NOT what is says in Chovos Halevavos. True Bitachon is believing that Hashem WILL send you the money because YOU think it’s the right thing.

Yes! We need to believe that with enough bitachon we could have everything we want. Hashem gives it to us in the zchus of the bitachon. Would love to learn this part inside, do you have the specific source?

steak4me

Fri, Sep 09 2022, 2:37 pm

DVOM wrote:

I trust that God loves me and will take care of me, always. But does my trust in him mean that I believe he'll send me 20k to spend on diamonds? It's easier for me to believe that he'll send each of my boys a match who will be happy with a far more modest collection of bridal gifts.

But, it’s the same easy for him to send you more money and to send you simple brides. We don’t have to ease things up for him.

Personally, I have an investment account set up for each of my kids that we contribute to weekly. It doesn’t have to be a large amount. But it adds up after 20-25 years.
Bezras hashem I will have the funds to marry them off without this money and this will be their down payments, but if not I can always tap into these. (My oldest isn’t even 12 yet)

steak4me

Fri, Sep 09 2022, 2:39 pm

amother Periwinkle wrote:

I had an insane situation this week that could have costed me my whole livelihood. It seemed that there was no fix to it. I tried everything. Until I threw my hands up in defeat and spoke to hashem and told him that I know it’s only him who has control and I know he could help me and I need him to.
And that’s when I got my yeshua. It’s when we surrender to hashem, and we stop trying to control our lives and think of solutions is when we show hashem we acknowledge who’s really in charge and give him the space to step in and take over.

amother

Cerulean

Fri, Sep 09 2022, 3:44 pm

steak4me wrote:

So it's easier for you to believe because you have something tanglible. Many people don't have a penny to put away

amother

Cerulean

Fri, Sep 09 2022, 3:47 pm

steak4me wrote:

I've done this too. The situation hasn't changed. I am just trusting it's best for me. I wish it would change though because down here it looks really dire (think promotional apr expiring, interest going up to 17 percent and I can't get another card, but about 5* worse). And no I'm not sitting around waiting for a miracle, we are doing the best we can, but also understanding that my hishtadlus is a facade and that Hashem has control of all the money in the world and can change things in a heartbeat. I believe Hashem wants to give me everything, and has the power to. For whatever reason this hasn't been give to me.

amother

Cerulean

Fri, Sep 09 2022, 3:48 pm

steak4me wrote:

Stories like this are nice, but what do you do then with the times it doesn't happen?

steak4me

Fri, Sep 09 2022, 3:48 pm

amother Cerulean wrote:

So it's easier for you to believe because you have something tanglible. Many people don't have a penny to put away

My first paragraph has no connection to the second one.

Emunah isn’t only in money, and not only with tangible circumstances. It’s a concept that applies to our whole life and the way we live.

amother

Cerulean

Fri, Sep 09 2022, 4:03 pm

DVOM wrote:

This worries me a great deal.

Finances are manageable with very careful spending and budgeting, but there isn't a whole lot left over.

There was a thread a while back that talked about the 'normal', expected, wedding gifts. Not the wedding itself, the gifts to the bride. People were quoting astronomical numbers, 10k, 15k, 20k, and brides who didn't receive these gifts were sharing their long-standing resentment towards their in laws for not providing the correct number or size of diamond-studded items.

I trust that God loves me and will take care of me, always. But does my trust in him mean that I believe he'll send me 20k to spend on diamonds? It's easier for me to believe that he'll send each of my boys a match who will be happy with a far more modest collection of bridal gifts.

Which part about this worried you?

If 20k on diamonds is important to you, then ask him from your heart. If you want a match that is modest ask for that too! He can do anything.

amother

Daffodil

Fri, Sep 09 2022, 4:52 pm

There are a few separate issues that people are conflating.

One is worrying about possible farfetched future events.

Another is planning and taking reasonable precautions.

If you're lying in bed unable to sleep because of worry about marrying off your children 10 years from now, that's obviously unhealthy and counterproductive. The worry itself is draining you of the mental space and energy you need to do constructive problem solving.

H WANTS us to live in this world and work within its boundaries. We do what we can but ultimately we do not have control.

It's good you're seeking advice from a financial counselor and trying to figure out ways to save. Now you can put the rest of the worries out of your mind. You've done your part. The rest isn't in your control. Might as well worry about an asteroid striking earth or nuclear disaster.

DustyDiamonds

Fri, Sep 09 2022, 5:39 pm

amother Periwinkle wrote:

So everyone who can’t pay their bills is at fault for not having enough bitachon?

All older single girls are guilty of insufficient bitachon?

All folks who are very sick are at fault for their illness because they didn’t muster up enough bitachon?

The Chazon Ish and Lubavitcher rebbe didn’t have children because they didn’t have enough bitachon that Hashem would bless them with children?

Not in my religion!

amother

Blush

Fri, Sep 09 2022, 6:54 pm

amother Aquamarine wrote:

Please calm down. Please learn some chovos halvavos. you are worrying way too much. Hashem is carrying the burden. You are doing what you can.

Really, please learn and strengthen yourself in bitachon. Your life will change.

Why would I worry now about marrying off? It's wrong to worry. You can try to put away money but once you learn to just leave it up to Hashem He will send you money.

Please try, so that when the time comes, you will be calm and a great role model for your children. You will believe with all your heart, and you will know, that Hashem will send you what you need, from places that you did not imagine.

Unfortunately this is foreign to some of us who did not grow up like this.

Every time I say this there are posters who bash and say I'm wrong, they come up with bitachon and hishtadlus ratios and are so focused on their jobs as sources of income that they dont realize Hashem has a million ways to send you money. and no, if you dont believe it will not come. But if you do, and you don't doubt for a minute, then it will literally show up.

Before you bash you need to work on this with all your might. Because it works.

Wishing you lots of clarity and no anxiety. Anxiety about money has no place in a Jewish mother's heart, there is a remedy. There is a solution. Hashem is the solution. We need to just relearn what we were taught about hishtadlus/bitachon. We need to focus much more on true bitachon.

While it must be a great madreiga to be on, I can imagine what those parents felt when their kids' yeshivos didn't care if kids will go to a public school because of lack of money for tuition, or when kids can't start the school on time or didn't get their report cards because of tuition owed. Or many more who are in dire financial situations.
Sometimes the answer is No and that hurts.

amother

Periwinkle

Sat, Sep 10 2022, 8:36 pm

DustyDiamonds wrote:

You can take it up with the Or Hachayim, Ramchal, the Zohar and others.

It’s not just having bitachon but really feeling it deep inside you.

As for the gedolim, there could be many answers. Maybe they chose to do things the hard way for whatever reason.

There are always exceptions to every rule, but this is the rule, at least from what I’ve learned and experienced.

Jeanette

Sat, Sep 10 2022, 9:05 pm

amother Periwinkle wrote:

This is a simplistic, one dimensional view.

First of all, when another person is in distress, you don't tell them, have bitachon and all will be well. That's what you tell YOURSELF when YOU are distressed. When it's another person you empathize with them and try to help.

Secondly we don't have answers for why anyone has to suffer pain. And we don't need to try to come up with answers. It's not our job to be Hashem's defense attorney.

What we do know is that bitachon has the power to overcome a harsh decree. It gives us power within ourselves to cope even when the outcome isn't what we had hoped for. It gives us the emotional and intellectual space to problem solve effectively without panic getting in the way.

That should not be interpreted to mean that anyone who is suffering for any reason just didn't have enough bitachon. The answer is to scream to Hashem like Moshe Rabbeinu did and say, Hashem, why are you making your people suffer??

DVOM

Sat, Sep 10 2022, 9:12 pm

steak4me wrote:

So true, God can do anything!

I guess I think 20k on diamonds is silly. I wouldn't waste my prayers on something so trivial. I guess I think a simpler match would be better for my kids in lots of ways, having grown up simply themselves. I'd rather pray for life partners who can appreciate my boys with all their beautiful simplicity, hardiness, and easy-to-please personalities than pray for diamonds. But maybe your right. I guess I can pray for both!

amother

Periwinkle

Sat, Sep 10 2022, 9:50 pm

Jeanette wrote:

I was not replying to OP directly.

It’s not just that bitachon makes it easier to think of a solution, it actually generates a solution.

This is information I wish I knew earlier and that’s why I’m sharing it.

It’s no one’s fault for not having enough bitachon, Hashem did give us circumstances that can make it hard to have bitachon, but I believe the way out is through bitachon. I’m not saying it’s easy…

…Or is the answer to jump into the water like Nachson, with full belief that Hashem will save you?

Goldie613

Sun, Sep 11 2022, 5:30 pm

happy7 wrote:

Actually, This is NOT what is says in Chovos Halevavos. True Bitachon is believing that Hashem WILL send you the money because YOU think it’s the right thing.

I am not familiar with that source, but I'm not sure I agree with it. What if the Aibeshter in his infinite wisdom knows that us getting what we are asking for is the wrong thing for us?

Yes, Hashem is always listening, yes, He always answers, but sometimes the answer is "no". Bitachon (to me, anyway) means believing that Hashem is capable of anything and everything, but that if He says "no", we need to believe that this is the right answer for us, even if we don't/can't understand why.