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Do you have lace wigs?
Yes, lace top.  
 31%  [ 71 ]
Yes, lace front.  
 18%  [ 42 ]
No, just skin top.  
 49%  [ 110 ]
Total Votes : 223



shabbatiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 12 2022, 7:22 am
happysmile1 wrote:
I think that so much of this is self esteem and a lack of understanding of what real modesty is.

If women felt good about themselves without needing to look a certain away according to secular values that unfortunately infiltrated in to frum society- they wouldn't need to wear beautiful natural wigs to feel confident. We are so much more that nice "hair" on our heads! and the excuse that "I'm doing if for myself" really doesn't fly here- the reality is that most women dress up the most outside the house (where other men see them) and in the house look very dressed down and shlumpy (for their own husband). Women put on wigs to go out- in the public. When really they are supposed to be more modest in the streets - not less!

It is really kind of backwards today. It is supposed to the opposite, the Torah derech is to look stunning and beautiful at home for ones husband only and in the street to downplay one's beauty in front of other men.

That is real tznius!
Wow, you have a very low view of women. Low self esteem, not understanding tzniut. Why do you believe that most women have low self esteem and dont get tzniut. Seriously.
I dont think most women are dressing for anyone except thrmselves. Not for secular values, not for their co workers and not the man down the road.
Im not sure where you are getting your view points, but they are very skewed.
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happysmile1




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 12 2022, 7:41 am
I think Jewish women are absolutely amazing- working so hard on themselves, on their marriages and children etc... The chesed that is done in our communities is unbelievable and I am in awe of so many women in my community.

I unfortunately have a million flaws and things to work on myself- I am coming with no judgement at all!

I just think that women don't realize how attractive they are to men and what a nisayon men have when it comes to women. I'm not saying that men can't control themselves (they are commanded to!) but they were made with a crazy YH to look at women. We are supposed to make it easier for them- not harder.

The way we dress and cover our hair outside really affects all the men around us. So even if we are only dressing for ourselves to look beautiful for our own self esteem (which really shouldn't be dependant on our physical appearance) or to dress up for the office because we work or whatever reason- according to the Torah we need to take in to account how our appearance and head covering will affect all the men that see us. If other women think that we look beautiful than obviously other men will think we look beautiful too and that is putting a stumbling block before a blind man (which is what the Torah compares men to in regards to women.)
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happysmile1




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 12 2022, 7:46 am
Since hair is such a beautifying part married women were commanded to cover and conceal it. This does ensure that men don't stumble because of her.

It is a beautiful protection for the married women and all the men around her- and only echances her shalom bayis (the more modest a woman is the more shechina in her home and the more shalom bayis).
The less modest a woman is outside the more Hashem leaves her marriage and this makes her marriage more vulnerable.

There is a very strong shiur by Rav Avraham Chaim Fueur shlita where he stated that it is a minefield out there for the men with all the immodest wigs, and that any woman that is walking around dressed in a beautifying sheitel causing other men to look at her is ensuring that her own husband will notice all the women around him....
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 12 2022, 7:52 am
happysmile1 wrote:
I think Jewish women are absolutely amazing- working so hard on themselves, on their marriages and children etc... The chesed that is done in our communities is unbelievable and I am in awe of so many women in my community.

I unfortunately have a million flaws and things to work on myself- I am coming with no judgement at all!

I just think that women don't realize how attractive they are to men and what a nisayon men have when it comes to women. I'm not saying that men can't control themselves (they are commanded to!) but they were made with a crazy YH to look at women. We are supposed to make it easier for them- not harder.

The way we dress and cover our hair outside really affects all the men around us. So even if we are only dressing for ourselves to look beautiful for our own self esteem (which really shouldn't be dependant on our physical appearance) or to dress up for the office because we work or whatever reason- according to the Torah we need to take in to account how our appearance and head covering will affect all the men that see us. If other women think that we look beautiful than obviously other men will think we look beautiful too and that is putting a stumbling block before a blind man (which is what the Torah compares men to in regards to women.)
You keep on repeating the same thing over and over and we keep telling you that you have it wrong. So Im not sure what you think repeating the same thing over and over again will accomplish.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 12 2022, 7:53 am
happysmile1 wrote:
Since hair is such a beautifying part married women were commanded to cover and conceal it. This does ensure that men don't stumble because of her.

It is a beautiful protection for the married women and all the men around her- and only echances her shalom bayis (the more modest a woman is the more shechina in her home and the more shalom bayis).
The less modest a woman is outside the more Hashem leaves her marriage and this makes her marriage more vulnerable.

There is a very strong shiur by Rav Avraham Chaim Fueur shlita where he stated that it is a minefield out there for the men with all the immodest wigs, and that any woman that is walking around dressed in a beautifying sheitel causing other men to look at her is ensuring that her own husband will notice all the women around him....
You may find this story to be beautiful. I see it as a fear mongering story.
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happysmile1




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 12 2022, 8:10 am
I really didn't mean to cause any fear- it was just a powerful shiur by a chashuv Rav!

I have heard many other Rabbanim say this as well. It made a lot of sense to me. It helped me become more sensitive to how men are and what I need to work on.
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amother




Dustypink
 

Post Mon, Sep 12 2022, 8:15 am
happysmile1 wrote:
I think Jewish women are absolutely amazing- working so hard on themselves, on their marriages and children etc... The chesed that is done in our communities is unbelievable and I am in awe of so many women in my community.

I unfortunately have a million flaws and things to work on myself- I am coming with no judgement at all!

I just think that women don't realize how attractive they are to men and what a nisayon men have when it comes to women. I'm not saying that men can't control themselves (they are commanded to!) but they were made with a crazy YH to look at women. We are supposed to make it easier for them- not harder.

The way we dress and cover our hair outside really affects all the men around us. So even if we are only dressing for ourselves to look beautiful for our own self esteem (which really shouldn't be dependant on our physical appearance) or to dress up for the office because we work or whatever reason- according to the Torah we need to take in to account how our appearance and head covering will affect all the men that see us. If other women think that we look beautiful than obviously other men will think we look beautiful too and that is putting a stumbling block before a blind man (which is what the Torah compares men to in regards to women.)


Women are 50% of society. The world functions with women everywhere. It's not the job of any gender to walk around with the concept that we're supposed to be making things easier for the other gender. We're not supposed to be making harder - I.e. dress in a provocative manner or attract undue attention to ourselves. But neither do we need to live with the mindset that our mere existence of just being and living is an obstacle in another person's path. The Torah makes no such demands on us. That idea is purely man-made, enforced by people who are misinterpreting the concept.

We aren't here simply to service the other gender. We are here for our own purposes to live, work and be together with the other gender. Our tasks are to work hand-in-hand to better ourselves and the world around us. We aren't a stumbling block in any man's path (unless you purposely make yourself to be one). A stumbling block is defined as purposely putting something into someone's path. If 50% of the world lives in the same world/same path as the other 50%, that is not a stumbling block. That is simply life. One doesn't need to hide themselves in that path/world, for the other to walk it. We each have our own challenges in this path, and that is precisely why we've each been given directions how to walk it. For the women, it's to be refined, act in a dignified manner, and not be provocative. For the men - it's guarding their eyes. Nowhere does it say that women need to detract from their beauty and disappear for the men to walk their walk. As another poster so eloquently pointed out - how does one fulfill shmiras einoyim, if there's nothing to do shmira from? We weren't given the obligation to disappear or look ugly so that men don't have to do shmira. The men were given the obligation to do the shmira, precisely because women are allowed to be women.

Women don't carry both burdens. They're responsible for themselves, but not for the burden of shmiras einoyim. That's solely on the men. And all these explanations around it is simply a misinterpretation of what it actually is.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 12 2022, 8:31 am
happysmile1 wrote:
I really didn't mean to cause any fear- it was just a powerful shiur by a chashuv Rav!

I have heard many other Rabbanim say this as well. It made a lot of sense to me. It helped me become more sensitive to how men are and what I need to work on.
You didnt cause fear. I was saying that that is all the story shows, ways to scare people into doing things.
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happysmile1




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 12 2022, 8:35 am
How can a woman dress modestly if she doesn't understand what provokes men? Of course a woman could look nice and dignified without provoking a man, but she needs to understand what will cause men to stumble.

According to the Torah after marriage a woman's hair is erva to men- erva means a body part that needs to be covered because it can provoke a man (there are Torah sources for this)
If that is the case than beautiful hair has the potential to cause a man to look at her inappropriately so the head covering needs to conceal this beauty (not look like beautiful hair). Otherwise she is creating a stumbling block for men. Yes, the man has to guard his eyes but who would want to be the cause of a man to be look and ruin his shmiras einayim because she looks beautiful outside! It is a responsibilty on the part of the woman too.

All the holy women in the Torah that were praised for being beautiful were also praised for their modesty- they stayed in their tents! They didn't go outside in front of other men looking beautiful. Real tznius means being invisible to men. I so admire those women that look so unassuming and simple with tichels or short wiggy wigs, minimal makeup and jewlery. They are such heroes in our generation! (like the popular tznius story of the holy woman in EY who wore tichels outside and gorgeous wigs in her house for her husband) I wish that I was on their level of modesty....
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happysmile1




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 12 2022, 8:38 am
FYI I am a major work in progress, particularly in tznius which I find very challenging.

I am not yet on the level of this woman in EY but I really admire women in my community who dress like this. I don't know how they stand up to the social pressure and society norms.
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Chickensoupprof




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 12 2022, 8:48 am
I got one and I’m happy with it. And I saw the daughter of my rav after I bought it and asked her what her fathers view is on these things “well, u cover ur hair, if u want to cover it with a piece of cloth, towel or napkin or sheital is ur choice” “ur dad would’ve said the same” “yeah we are alike”. I still mostly wear my bandfall during the week or a tichel.

I also believe that within a few years no one is kvetching about lace anymore, bandfalls were also not good, human hair too etc
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Chickensoupprof




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 12 2022, 8:49 am
happysmile1 wrote:
How can a woman dress modestly if she doesn't understand what provokes men? Of course a woman could look nice and dignified without provoking a man, but she needs to understand what will cause men to stumble.

According to the Torah after marriage a woman's hair is erva to men- erva means a body part that needs to be covered because it can provoke a man (there are Torah sources for this)
If that is the case than beautiful hair has the potential to cause a man to look at her inappropriately so the head covering needs to conceal this beauty (not look like beautiful hair). Otherwise she is creating a stumbling block for men. Yes, the man has to guard his eyes but who would want to be the cause of a man to be look and ruin his shmiras einayim because she looks beautiful outside! It is a responsibilty on the part of the woman too.

All the holy women in the Torah that were praised for being beautiful were also praised for their modesty- they stayed in their tents! They didn't go outside in front of other men looking beautiful. Real tznius means being invisible to men. I so admire those women that look so unassuming and simple with tichels or short wiggy wigs, minimal makeup and jewlery. They are such heroes in our generation! (like the popular tznius story of the holy woman in EY who wore tichels outside and gorgeous wigs in her house for her husband) I wish that I was on their level of modesty....
ok what do woman have to do when they are naturally attractive? Poor acid in their face? Tznius is not about being invisible never heard of that one really
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amother




Babyblue
 

Post Mon, Sep 12 2022, 9:02 am
happysmile1 wrote:
How can a woman dress modestly if she doesn't understand what provokes men? Of course a woman could look nice and dignified without provoking a man, but she needs to understand what will cause men to stumble.

According to the Torah after marriage a woman's hair is erva to men- erva means a body part that needs to be covered because it can provoke a man (there are Torah sources for this)
If that is the case than beautiful hair has the potential to cause a man to look at her inappropriately so the head covering needs to conceal this beauty (not look like beautiful hair). Otherwise she is creating a stumbling block for men. Yes, the man has to guard his eyes but who would want to be the cause of a man to be look and ruin his shmiras einayim because she looks beautiful outside! It is a responsibilty on the part of the woman too.

All the holy women in the Torah that were praised for being beautiful were also praised for their modesty- they stayed in their tents! They didn't go outside in front of other men looking beautiful. Real tznius means being invisible to men. I so admire those women that look so unassuming and simple with tichels or short wiggy wigs, minimal makeup and jewlery. They are such heroes in our generation! (like the popular tznius story of the holy woman in EY who wore tichels outside and gorgeous wigs in her house for her husband) I wish that I was on their level of modesty....



This premise about woman looking pretty only inside the home is faulty.

Mosts men do not want their wives to look unsightly on the street. It’s all part of the attraction. A man who prefers a beautiful put together wife, will love her to look pretty outside as well. It’s the way humans are wired.

Also, when exactly do you want the women to be pretty at home? You people are also the ones who expect women to have many kids. The heels and wigs and mascara are for before the kids baths or during diaper changes?
If you think being pretty in the bedroom is enough for many men, you’re mistaken.

Besides, you can’t rid the world of immodesty. There are non Jewish non frum people all around us. If the goal is to remove stumbling blocks from men, you’ll need to get rid of all the immodest women not only your own wife.

This whole conversation is so ridiculous.
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happysmile1




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 12 2022, 9:06 am
Good point!

Women are naturally attractive to men which is why in our frum society events and simchas are separate. Ideally women are not supposed to be around men alot or interacting with them too much. Different men find different looks attractive- Hashem made women nice looking.

A modest head covering does an amazing job of making a woman invisible to men:)

I know personally when I wear a tichel (no matter how nice) as opposed to a nice wig I am much more ignored by men. Suddenly I am called Rebbetzin:)
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 12 2022, 9:08 am
happysmile1 wrote:
How can a woman dress modestly if she doesn't understand what provokes men? Of course a woman could look nice and dignified without provoking a man, but she needs to understand what will cause men to stumble.

According to the Torah after marriage a woman's hair is erva to men- erva means a body part that needs to be covered because it can provoke a man (there are Torah sources for this)
If that is the case than beautiful hair has the potential to cause a man to look at her inappropriately so the head covering needs to conceal this beauty (not look like beautiful hair). Otherwise she is creating a stumbling block for men. Yes, the man has to guard his eyes but who would want to be the cause of a man to be look and ruin his shmiras einayim because she looks beautiful outside! It is a responsibilty on the part of the woman too.

All the holy women in the Torah that were praised for being beautiful were also praised for their modesty- they stayed in their tents! They didn't go outside in front of other men looking beautiful. Real tznius means being invisible to men. I so admire those women that look so unassuming and simple with tichels or short wiggy wigs, minimal makeup and jewlery. They are such heroes in our generation! (like the popular tznius story of the holy woman in EY who wore tichels outside and gorgeous wigs in her house for her husband) I wish that I was on their level of modesty....
No, this is NOT what tzniut is all about at all. Please stop your posts. You are beyond nof informed correctly.
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amother




Forestgreen
 

Post Mon, Sep 12 2022, 9:10 am
happysmile1 wrote:
Good point!

Women are naturally attractive to men which is why in our frum society events and simchas are separate. Ideally women are not supposed to be around men alot or interacting with them too much. Different men find different looks attractive- Hashem made women nice looking.

A modest head covering does an amazing job of making a woman invisible to men:)

I know personally when I wear a tichel (no matter how nice) as opposed to a nice wig I am much more ignored by men. Suddenly I am called Rebbetzin:)

I guess you missed the other thread where a number of women shared that their husbands find them MORE attractive in a tichel...
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happysmile1




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 12 2022, 9:12 am
Why would a man want other men admiring his pretty wife?

It is NOT a Torah mindset at all. That is a secular mindset and it's called a "Trophy wife" (or as chashuv Rav explained to me "Achashveirish syndrome:)

I'm not saying a woman should look unkempt outside- but she is not supposed to be receiving stares and compliments from other men. And if she is that should concern a husband not make him proud...


The Chofetz Chaim addressed this in his sefer Geder Olam- he wrote straight out in Chapter 4 that a woman should be beautiful for her husband in private only and not in public. He wrote that if a husband wants a beautiful looking wife it is only for in the house and it is not an excuse to go outside in front of other men looking beautiful. I could look it up if anyone is interested.
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happysmile1




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 12 2022, 9:15 am
Maybe these women meant that their husbands find them more attractive in their tichels because it means that their main beauty is reserved for them only. It is a real compliment to a husband that a wife wants to reserve her main beauty just for him and not display it in the streets for everyone else to see!

I have many friends who told me that their husbands prefer them in tichels because of this reason.
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amother




Gardenia
 

Post Mon, Sep 12 2022, 9:15 am
When I walk on the streets I see tons of attractive men. What do you think oh holy woman? I should cut away my clit like old tribes?
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happysmile1




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Sep 12 2022, 9:16 am
I have friends that are married to men that are baal teshuvas who hate the sheitels. They asked their wives not to wear them because they feel that it makes their wives look unmarried and too provocative.

They love the tichels:)
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