Words that don't exist in loshon hakodesh

Malkqueen

Thu, Sep 15 2022, 8:11 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

I'm googling. There's a link to Buddhism; there was an NPR On Point on the subject and I listened and thought, they're missing fargin.
Can it be used as a verb in some form?

It's mostly used in a s*xual context with regards to polygamous relationships, but it is literally defined as "the opposite of jealousy; the feeling of joy in another's good fortune"

Thisisnotmyreal

Thu, Sep 15 2022, 8:27 pm

relaxation wrote:

this might get controversal but I heard the g-y is something that the torah only mentions in a roundabout way and not as an identity. I am not here to defend it or go against it ... just saying I heard this once before..

Edit yes Hashem refers to us as גוי קדוש

relaxation

Thu, Sep 15 2022, 8:30 pm

Thisisnotmyreal wrote:

Edit yes Hashem refers to us as גוי קדוש

I meant with an a but lol that also I guess is true..

Thisisnotmyreal

Thu, Sep 15 2022, 8:33 pm

relaxation wrote:

I meant with an a but lol that also I guess is true..

Oh lol. Torah doesn't agree with the identity narrative but that also means the gay culture isn't assur. Only the act.

Thisisnotmyreal

Thu, Sep 15 2022, 8:37 pm

I know the word Etzem doesn't have an English word for it. There is a Greek one though.

relaxation

Thu, Sep 15 2022, 8:46 pm

Thisisnotmyreal wrote:

I know the word Etzem doesn't have an English word for it. There is a Greek one though.

bone ?

reality ? essence ? midst ?

Mommy

Thu, Sep 15 2022, 8:56 pm

BrisketBoss wrote:

Believe it or not: perfect

This was a concept we learned from the Greeks. Shalem, and I think there's another word that's brought too, aren't really the same.

What does תמים mean then?

onlyme

Thu, Sep 15 2022, 8:58 pm

GLUE wrote:

This is not loshon hakodesh but it sums up Jews

There is a word(forgot what it is)in Yiddish that you can't find in any other language it means to be happy that someone else got something good.

Similar concept to fargin is the yiddish word באשטיי.
As in איך קען באשטיין...

The closest English phrase that I was able to think of is "I don't mind" but there's no actual word for it. Like there's a concept of "minding" but no word for the opposite of that.

zaq

Thu, Sep 15 2022, 9:10 pm

OP, please define what you mean by “loshon hakodesh.” There’s Biblical Hebrew, Mishnaic Hebrew, Medieval/Rabbinic Hebrew, and Modern Israeli Hebrew, and they’re all similar but different.
As you are aware, even Biblical Hebrew borrows terms from foreign languages. Never mind borrowing, much of Sefer Daniel is in Aramaic and not Hebrew at all. There are words which appear only once or twice in all of Tanach, like “achashteranim” in Megillat Esther, which is a Persian word, not a Hebrew one.

The very lettering that we use in our sifrei Torah is not original Hebrew. It’s called k’tav Ashuri, Assyrian writing, and was brought back with the exiles returning to EY after Galut Bavel. The “Hebrew” names of the months, Nissan, Iyyar, etc., are another souvenir brought back from Babylonia. The few authentically Hebrew month names are the numerical ones “chodesh harishon,” descriptive ones like “chodesh ha’aviv,” and obscure ones like “chodesh eitanim.”

In Mishnaic Hebrew there are countless words borrowed from Greek, like “listim” meaning robbers and “kategor” meaning prosecutor. Words are also borrowed from languages of neighboring nations who were not necessarily quasi-global empires.

Medieval payyetanim are in a class by themselves, many of them inventing abstruse, one-of-a-kind words as, one imagines, a kind of scholarly exercise for their own satisfaction and maybe the entertainment of a small coterie of their peers. They may have been intended as a means of exalted communication with G-d, but for actual use by ordinary mortals, they are an abysmal failure. JMHO of course.

Modern Israeli Hebrew as spoken in the street is so full of loanwords that it is sometimes hard to believe it is Hebrew at all. Eliezer Ben-Yehuda, credited with almost singlehandedly reviving Hebrew as a spoken language, frowned upon borrowing terms from foreign languages and strove mightily to be as true as possible to classical biblical Hebrew roots. For example, he chose “chashmal” for “electricity” based on the same word in Yechezkel 1:4 וָאֵ֡רֶא וְהִנֵּה֩ ר֨וּחַ סְעָרָ֜ה בָּאָ֣ה מִן־הַצָּפֹ֗ון עָנָ֤ן גָּדֹול֙ וְאֵ֣שׁ מִתְלַקַּ֔חַת וְנֹ֥גַֽהּ לֹ֖ו סָבִ֑יב וּמִ֨תֹּוכָ֔הּ כְּעֵ֥ין הַחַשְׁמַ֖ל מִתֹּ֥וךְ הָאֵֽשׁ׃. Dreaming up an entire vocabulary suited to the needs of modern society using roots from a lexicon thousands of years old was an incredible achievement.

Ben-Yehuda would tear his hair out if he heard, a street corner in Tel Aviv, people “medaskes”-ing (discussing) if it’s possible “lenarmel” (to normalize) a situatziah (situation) that somebody “tirped” (torpedoed.) OTOH, the Tannaim, who cheerfully adopted words from the superpowers of their day, (afikoman, anyone?) would perhaps be a bit more tolerant of such linguistic theft.

So…OP, to which Hebrew do you refer?

Thisisnotmyreal

Thu, Sep 15 2022, 9:36 pm

relaxation wrote:

bone ?

reality ? essence ? midst ?

I was referring to a specific context not necessarily bone.
Essence is closest word for it but that's really the definition of mahus.

goodmorning

Thu, Sep 15 2022, 9:48 pm

Malkqueen wrote:

It's mostly used in a s*xual context with regards to polygamous relationships, but it is literally defined as "the opposite of jealousy; the feeling of joy in another's good fortune"

I think "confelicity" is more commonly used in nons*xual contexts.

goodmorning

Thu, Sep 15 2022, 9:50 pm

zaq wrote:

Schadenfreude. The concept exists in Mishlei: בִּנְפֹ֣ל (אויביך) [א֭וֹיִבְךָ] אַל־תִּשְׂמָ֑ח וּ֝בִכָּשְׁל֗וֹ אַל־יָגֵ֥ל לִבֶּֽךָ׃, but trust the Germans to come up with a word for it.

Farginen doesn't mean rejoicing over someone else's good fortune; it means wishing them well and not begrudging them their good fortune. Closely related emotions, perhaps, but nevertheless different.

The English came up with a word for it too: "epicaricacy."

goodmorning

Thu, Sep 15 2022, 9:51 pm

OP, the Rambam famously wrote that Lashon Hakodesh is called by that name because it does not contain any "non-holy" words, such as the words for reproductive organs and procreation. It relies on the use of euphemisms and hints instead.

BrisketBoss

Thu, Sep 15 2022, 9:57 pm

Mommy wrote:

What does תמים mean then?

That's it, the other one! It's similar to shalem. It means something like complete, wholehearted, blameless

goodmorning

Thu, Sep 15 2022, 10:07 pm

BrisketBoss wrote:

That's it, the other one! It's similar to shalem. It means something like complete, wholehearted, blameless

There's also kalil (as in כִּ֣י כָּלִ֣יל ה֗וּא בַּֽהֲדָרִי֙ and כְּלִ֣ילַת יֹ֔פִי), which is translated as all-inclusive / complete / perfect.

zaq

Thu, Sep 15 2022, 10:11 pm

goodmorning wrote:

Would you consider it "holy" to refer to males as "those who urinate against the wall"? I would consider it rather vulgar, and in fact was disturbed to read it in a certain work of historical fiction, not realizing that this exact expression appears in at least six places in the books of Shmuel Aleph and Melachim Aleph and Bet. And in none of these places is it quoting a Philistine, either.

The word "urinate" is not a vulgarism or profanity, but the expression leaves something to be desired in the "clean language" department, no?

Thisisnotmyreal

Thu, Sep 15 2022, 10:41 pm

zaq wrote:

This term is only used in the context of killing out family. The Torah absolutely does use cleaner language where possible. If anything bothers you in Torah you need to ask why. That's how we learn. This is no different

zaq

Fri, Sep 16 2022, 3:47 pm

Thisisnotmyreal wrote:

I know the context in which it is used, but your statement explains nothing. Why was it necessary to use this term which is, face it, not something we would say in the presence of our grandmother or our young children? The same verbally economical Torah that nevertheless famously troubles itself to say "lo tehorah" instead of "t'meah" when discussing the animals to be brought into Noah's ark? The identical idea could have been conveyed by stating "Kol zachar," unless the intent was to exempt infants who aren't old enough to stand to do their business and old men who are too debilitated to ditto. But the intent was clearly to obliterate every male regardless of age or condition.

I stand by my point that even l'shon hakodesh has graphic expressions that are not hints or euphemisms. They are few and far between, but check out Devarim 28:30, similarly Zechariah 14:2 and Isaiah 13:6. Some may argue that they are simply clinical terms devoid of any taint of vulgarity. Yet the Masoretes evidently considered them objectionable, which is why the kri substitutes a less problematic word.

BH Yom Yom

Fri, Sep 16 2022, 3:56 pm

zaq, I wish I could “like” your posts twice!!

PinkFridge

Sat, Sep 17 2022, 10:35 pm

zaq wrote:

Ben-Yehuda would tear his hair out if he heard, a street corner in Tel Aviv, people “medaskes”-ing (discussing) if it’s possible “lenarmel” (to normalize) a situatziah (situation) that somebody “tirped” (torpedoed.) OTOH, the Tannaim, who cheerfully adopted words from the superpowers of their day, (afikoman, anyone?) would perhaps be a bit more tolerant of such linguistic theft.

So…OP, to which Hebrew do you refer?

That doesn't bother me.
Re lehavdil the Tannaim, IIRC I heard this on the word totafos: Rashi says it's from an African word. So why is that the word in the Torah? Because at Migdal Bavel, ideas from lashon hakodesh made their way into many languages and cultures, but they were ours originally.