Class doesn't stop talking !!

amother

Acacia

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 11:45 am

Sewsew_mom wrote:

When I was in 10th grade my math teacher used to stand by the door and wait until everyone stood up for her. She was young and even if I recall still single at the time.
I wasn't a disruptive or bad kid at all but I felt forced standing up for her when she had no reason to be respected (I was young obviously) so I didn't stand up. I got sent to the principle and till this day I think that is the most absurd thing to do in a class. Girls won't respect you more when you demand respect.
Please don't use these tactics in a class you already have a hard time with, just makes you look like a fool who has lost control.
(luckily my principle was seemingly normal and I remember her saying I was a hundred percent right and I'm pretty sure she spoke to the teacher after-but it's many many years so details aren't clear anymore)

I’m the poster above that you quoted. I never made a mention about standing up to the girls, with words or hand motions of anything. This is the culture of the school to stand up for teachers. Most of them are standing and shmoozinf with friends anyways before I walk in and just move over to stand by their desk. This is more about a sense of readiness for class- food away, quiet, notes and pens out. I never ever demand that they stand or would ever cv stare at a girl who is sitting. I care more about the quiet rather than coming and starting to talk when there is already noise. I agree you can’t force respect for yourself but I try to conjure respect for the learning environment by having a sense of seriousness at the start of class. Nothing to do with me.
In fact, they know me standing on the side means readiness for class- when the class discussion gets a bit too loud or lively I move over to the side of class and wait, without talking, for it to die down. Works like a charm.

Bnei Berak 10

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 11:49 am

amother Seablue wrote:

Probably the kid will just shrug her shoulders, in which case, I continue with,) Something has to change, so I will need to send you out if you keep disrupting

Suddenly the talker has nothing to say to her defense Smile

And yes, this needs to be addressed to the principal as well as the parents.
It amazes me every time that the talkers think it's OK to interrupt a lesson while teacher is speaking. It's disrespectful to teacher and to ALL the class mates.

amother

Banana

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 11:50 am

OP, I would create a new vibe in the classroom.

First of all, you need to be supported by higher authority. Walk into class with the headmistress and a firm resolve to create a new reality.

You need to state your expectations clearly and also outline consequences. And then carry them out.

This needs to be done with the involvement of authority. Not in a mean way but in a matter of fact You mean business way.

Bnei Berak 10

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 11:53 am

amother Banana wrote:

Spot on!

amother

Banana

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 12:01 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Spot on!

I have witnessed some of my own teachers turn a hectic classroom into abiding and sweet albeit slightly-afraid-of-the-consequenses students.

The girls feel your confidance and your ego.

You need to project an image of I am in charge and this is my classroom and I set the fair rules and also, don't let your ego get in the way because they will feel it. Try not to react from an emotional sense but rather from protocol and logic. Do not let it all become personal otherwise they will fight you and enjoy it all.

BrisketBoss

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 12:01 pm

https://livesinthebalance.org/walking-tour/

Check this out, with emphasis on the last video, "Full-Class Plan B." Collaborating with students can work much better than the kid-vs-authority model suggested by others--and that isn't a surprise, or at least it shouldn't be.

Hatzlacha. I have also experienced being brought to tears by a class that 'just won't listen.'

amother

Banana

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 12:07 pm

BrisketBoss wrote:

It depends on the age of the students.

Young girls would probably need a different approach.

amother

Seablue

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 12:55 pm

amother Banana wrote:

I agree with this except the walking into class with the headmistress. That demonstrates a lack of confidence on the part of the teacher (I can't do this on my own. I need the principal's help) and a lack of the principal's trust in the teacher's abilities (teacher needs me to be here); both are messages you do not want to convey to the students.

When I do end up sending a student out, I do it in a way of: Look, you obviously aren't interested in what we're doing here, so why continue to sit here? You are disturbing. If you can sit here and not disturb, I still care that you're not gaining from my class, but that's your own personal choice. Take out a sudoku and do it quietly. But where I need to draw the line is when you include others in your misbehavior; that's when you can't be here anymore.

amother

Aster

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 12:58 pm

Quitting teaching high school was the one of the best decisions I ever made.

Just want to let you know that you don't need to suffer. Try a bit more. Try different things. It's ok if it doesn't work out.

I wish someone would have told me this.

Teaching a bunch of kids who aren't listening to you feels very stressful. Takes all the joy out of teaching and preparing.

amother

Bisque

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 1:12 pm

amother Aster wrote:

Yup - was waiting for someone to say this. I taught for so long and it literally took years off my life. If you have the knack - go for it but if after a couple - and I say 2 max - years you can't control the class I don't think any course or therapist or book can change this.

I have a MSED and took every course under the sun. I read every single book in Barnes in Nobles on education. I could not control the class until the end of my teaching career.

I look at my husband - never stepped in to college, never read a book, never took a course (I was in fact begging him to take a torah umesorah course before he started and he laughed). From the moment he steps in to the class there is total control. It's an inborn confidence either you have or dont

Feel free to disagree but I believe this is the truth.

Do I want to teach? YES- I would give my life to be in the classroom instead of my boring office job.
Can I teach? not to save my life.

amother

Grape

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 1:17 pm

It's ok to quit if it's really not working for you.
But, op says she's been doing it for few years and it has been ok.
I've been teaching for many years, in a few different schools. Once I got past the first year or two, classroom management wasn't an issue. Then last year, I had the worst class of my entire career and no matter what I did, I couldn't get them to be quiet and listen. (Their previous teachers had said the same.) Guess what? This year, my class is fine and we are back to normal. The teachers for the grade above me who have my old students from last year are now the ones struggling. Sometimes it's just that group of kids which is what it sounds like for op.

amother

Bisque

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 1:21 pm

amother Grape wrote:

That's true- I guess I got stuck on her op where she wrote that she's had her "ups and downs but mostly ok". That was triggering for me because I also used to tell myself teaching has its ups and downs. In hindsight I was lying to myself. I was 85% down but tried to think positive and think things are getting better. They actually weren't. I never had it in me to be a classroom teacher and I wish I would have been okay with quitting years before I actually did.

amother

Grape

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 1:24 pm

amother Bisque wrote:

Right. I get that. I know people who developed severe anxiety and depression due to struggling with teaching, and they stayed longer then they should have, either because a spouse or therapist encouraged them to keep trying. A job is never worth your mental health.
Teaching definitely isn't for everyone and there's no shame in that.
That said, most beginning teachers struggle with classroom management. If they can learn on the job and get a handle on things, they can turn out to be very successful teachers.

amother

Arcticblue

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 2:19 pm

I’m sorry op for your situation. It stinks.
But do you realize that the girls have been sitting in their desks since 8:25 am through 5:00pm (and going on the bus at 7:30am and sitting on the bus home and only getting home around 5:30 pm) day in day out? Monday- Thursday and a half day Friday.
Your walking in for what, a 45 minute period(then going on your way to shop, cook, take care of kids etc but definitely easier than sitting in one place for hours at a time…) and expect total obedience and perfect behavior?
Teens are people too and actually have it much harder than us marrieds- we at least have a husband to complain to when we get home LOL

They have mothers who are busy with a million things and we know it’s not the same empathy as a husband...
Many go through the hormonal craziness, trying to figure out adulthood while juggling the social ups and downs … it’s HARD!
I say give them some slack. Talk in a low tone the entire time, tell them your teaching for thier benefit- not yours , tell them whoever wants to leave go right ahead. You only want the ones who want to be here in the classroom.
Some will leave, and guess what ? Your better off without them.
I know - controversial post here.

amother

Acacia

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 2:27 pm

amother Arcticblue wrote:

I agree with what you’re saying that it’s really hard to be a hs student, let alone contribute and be activelyinvolved in class. I try to always keep this in mind as I teach. That why I keep my “lecturing” new material to a minimum and find other creative ways to reinforce the lesson in a more self directed way.

In many schools letting them leave isn’t an option because you will have principals on your back.

amother

Cadetblue

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 4:57 pm

amother OP wrote:

Hi! I work in a frum high school that has an issue with girls talking in general. I have done it a few years and it can be stressful and has ups and downs but usually I am okay.
This year I teach 9th and 11th grade
Things are going fine with 9th but my 11th graders have no self control and I can barely get a sentence out without being interrupted.
I have taught some of the girls in this class before and so they feel too comfortable with me.
Also they are a tough class.
But I am on the verge of quitting. I actually had some anxiety last week due to it and cried, something that isn't my typical behavior.

It's not even like outright chutzpah but pockets of kids talking in each corner.
Help! I need advice !

Because they know you and are comfortable with you obviously they’re taking advantage… have you been a pushover and given them the message that you’ll put up with it? You have to lay down the lie and start threatening them with consequences and stick to them. Send them out if they talk. Or send them home. Or call parents and threaten suspension,

amother

Violet

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 5:16 pm

amother Silver wrote:

I'm so sorry you are dealing with this. I'm many years out of school but I remember that my 11th grade class was horrible to our math teacher. They would just ignore her and shmooze and sometimes even turn their desks around with their backs to the front of the class.
I happened to have loved math so the teacher would just end up teaching the few of us that were interested.
I don't know what would have helped. But your post brought me back memories.

Maybe we wete in the same class😊
I loved math and from a class of 30-35 girls there were about 7 of us who listened

amother

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 11:20 pm

BrisketBoss wrote:

I am enjoying these speeches. a lot of what he says makes sense. thank you!

mom39

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 11:52 pm

I teach HS math and the best thing for me is that there is a regent. In a non regent course the girls are less attentive since they feel there is less accountability at the end.

They definitely need consequences for actions. If they don't care if you take points off, have them sit detention. Or an extra assignment (doesn't have to be math. Could be an essay about class decorum). You have to give them something that they don't like - make sure your principal is in your corner and speak to the parents and make sure they are on board with you.

If girls in my class are talking, sometimes I'll just say -"you finish. I was taught not to speak when someone else is speaking so let me know when I can start". They get quiet right away.

Above all, do not try to act "cutesy" or be their friend. In the beginning you have to show who is the boss and you can let go in a few weeks. If you try to be their friend they will jump all over you and then it's extremely hard to go back. We all know which type of teachers we caused trouble by in class.