Crazy meal, what should I have done?

amother

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 10:05 am

Please be gentle, this whole issue makes me cry 😢.

Every once in a while our shabbos table is absolute chaos and it's miserable to be at. I spent my entire time trying to discipline and manage my 2 ADHD kids (one with ODD I believe) aside for the regular teasing and bickering. We had guests, there was a nasty fight between two kids and then one kid is being gross and rude, I try to manage that one and then a different kid is touching the guest and not respecting space, so I need to deal with that. I send one child to have a breather, until the child actually goes, there's drama, then drama when they return. My husband completely freezes when it gets like this. He tries, but he isn't much of a help in this area.
I'm just crying so much. What was I supposed to do? Why are my shabbos meals so horrible? I don't even want to be at them. There is zero shabbos atmosphere it's just chaos. Never mind that I am close to losing it.

This isn't every shabbos that it's this bad, but every week it's something and every few weeks it's bad.
Please don't tell me to medicate my children or put them in therapy or have a special room for them to release energy. I do all of these things plus. Don't tell me they have pandas or something else. Every one of my children have been through it all. They are, and I am doing my best.

It's times like this that I wonder if I'll ever have nachas from my children or if it's going to be years of this (so far it has). I so badly want a baby but there is no way. I hate that my home is dysfunctional despite all my efforts, it is dysfunctional and it's not my fault. I just want a bit of normal. I want to be able to let my kids play while I do something else or to eat in peace. Sorry for the rant. Mostly I just want advice of what I can do manage this issue?

amother

Plum

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 10:10 am

I send my kids to play when I see they are getting antsy. I serve the guests and adults and when we are almost done that course I call the kids ti eat and then I send them to play until the next one. Also you can make it kid friendly to keep them engaged and distracted. Discuss kid friendly topics they can participate in, give out prizes for saying what they learned in school, read out loud from one of the kid parsha books. Also seating arrangements, have the kids separated sit between the ones who fight and keep them on one side of the table and the guests on the other.

erm

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 10:15 am

Sorry you are having a hard time. I think most of us have this ideal image of what a shabbos meal is supposed to look like and usually are disappointed when the reality doesn’t live up to that. I didn’t have company when my children were younger because I found it chaotic to serve, referee and entertain at the same time. Now my expectations have been lowered and I am happy if they sit at the table for 10 minutes before going off to play something on their own. Because I wanted to elevate the Shabbos atomosphere, we started reading a scenario from the Sefer Achas Sh’alti. A situation is described and you have to decide if the person is right or wrong based on halacha. My kids join us for that and get very involved in deciding what’s right. How old are your children?

Last edited by erm on Sun, Sep 18 2022, 4:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

DVOM

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 10:16 am

Oh dear. I'm so sorry! That really sounds rough.

We had similar drama last week. Guests and cranky, bikkering kids is a really hard combination!

I find that if I'm calm, everyone is calm. I find it helpful to say out loud something like: You're really seeing the uncensored version of the DVOM family! I'm going to take these guys outside/to there rooms. Hubby, guests, please continue the meal. I'll be back as soon as I can.

I find that when I and the offending kid(s) leave that high pressure 'shabbos table with guests' environment, the stress is lowered and the kid can usually calm down and problem solve.

Last week the two cranky ones ended up leaving the meal and going to read and jump on the trampoline, respectively. They came back a bit later to rejoin the meal much calmer.

amother

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 10:31 am

Did I say that I have them stay at the table? I see a lot of people suggesting I let them go play. Of course! They don't have to be at the table at all!
It's not a guest thing, this goes on regardless of who is at the table.
Thank you for the reminder to stay calm and try to diffuse the atmosphere.
Will this ever get better? My kids are not all little. This isn't regular kids are kids behavior. Hashem help us all, there's 20 something meals in the next month.

amother

Honeydew

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 10:37 am

How old are they?
Younger ones can be fed before the night meals and put to bed early.
Children under the age of 10 can eat before meals as well and can play in another room during most of the meal.
Please stop having guest over. It’s not adding any structure to your kids routine.

There’s a time and place for everything.
Eventually when things calm down a bit, you can reevaluate.

amother

Tulip

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 10:40 am

amother OP wrote:

Omgosh. Are they hangry in addition? Can giving them a full meal before the meal help at all?

Also can you talk to them in advance about doing what they need to do to just have kiddush, a bite to eat and then chill at their own pace?

Maybe do a rehearsal meal? You and husband pretend to be them and show them what their behavior looks like? Sometimes I model the wild behavior to my students we all have a good laugh and then talk through strategies to recognize when we are being inappropriate and spiraling. I wonder if that would work at home specifically for seudahs.

In any case. I'll never forget the night one of my younger ones emptied out a soda can (shabbos special) at the table looked a guest straight in the face ... And then pulled out a toothbrush and brushed his teeth at the table with soda. My first reaction was to laugh ... And then I managed to pull the kid together and dispose of the offending materials.

amother

Blueberry

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 10:51 am

So sorry for what you're going thru. I'm in a similar situation. My son is 10 now and I kinda see a bit of improvement. He's had all types of diagnoses, he has and is still in therapy. But meds are one thing I was fighting very hard and bh,nso far he's able to manage day to day without it.

Shabbos meals used to be complete disasters, my husband wouldn't let him stay up friday night for the meal, even when the younger ones would. I generally have people around the shabbos table (not official guest, but people who are not blood relatives). If they don't like it, they don't have to come back.

All I can tell you, is that by treating your children nicely, as in no spanking or yelling things you would want to take back , they will eventually grow up and mature. We need to teach by example and show them how to act and respond to things we don't like, etc. It's very hard, I work on myself every day and sometimes bite my knuckles to keep myself from saying something I don't want to come out of my mouth.

Keep your chin up, this phase shall pass and iyh you'll be able to sit back and enjoy them for all their worth. Until then , hatzlacha.

amother

Tulip

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 11:30 am

amother DarkViolet wrote:

I feel your pain and longing. A baby won't be safe here and will likely have the same ODD struggles so like you said there's no way. So so painful. Hashem should send you yeshua.
I hope the kids give you reprieve for the next 20 meals. I wish I could help in some way.

What makes you sure a baby will have the same challenges? Maybe she needs to focus on the children she has right now. That's fair enough. But why decide what a future baby might look like?

OP what or how or when or if you decide on a baby in the future is your decision only. But know that every baby is its own world and person and won't necessarily have the same challenges as it's siblings.

In any case. I wish you a Shana tova and a year of shalom and yeshuot in every way.

mha3484

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 11:37 am

amother DarkViolet wrote:

Sorry but not true. I have 2 very challenging children with diagnoses. My next three are so so different. Im happy I did not stop having kids despite my first twos issues.

amother

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 2:28 pm

sushilover wrote:

Would you consider going to a parenting coach who can give you tools and reflect on your difficult moments that week? I've seen it work wonders. It's better than therapy for the kids.

I don't think any of us are equipped to tell you what you could have done differently unless someone here is a parenting expert and also hears your entire history.

Can you share the name and contact info of a coach who you saw work wonders?

amother

Crocus

Sun, Sep 18 2022, 4:55 pm

amother OP wrote:

So sorry for your situation. Honestly I wouldn’t have guests at this stage. It would prob make guests uncomfortable. Hopefully at a larger stage you’ll be able,