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Can you build character without suffering?
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Post Thu, Sep 22 2022, 11:00 am
sequoia wrote:
Ew

No

Trauma doesn’t make you stronger.

And it’s not shameful to talk to psychologists
.


We do have a concept of cur habarzel, the refining furnace, and not just re slavery in Egypt.
Re the bolded, of course. It's a tool to help us process a situation and - dare I say it? - maybe grow from it.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Sep 22 2022, 11:02 am
NotInNJMommy wrote:
I know my hardships have resulted in my having much more compassion and understanding for people and things on a deeper level.


No hugs on this thread but sincere hugs! Hug
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Sep 22 2022, 11:04 am
shaqued_almond wrote:
You gave words to something that's been on my mind. Whenever my kids tell me they love me it's hard for me to believe it. There's a voice in my head telling me that one day they'll wake up and stop feeling that way. Because of course I must be making mistakes and one day they'll realize that. My parents didn't mean to do wrong and it still happened. I'm not repeating my parents' mistakes but at the same time I'm wondering am I overcorrecting and being too nice?

I'd like to think that I'm kind but I also have moments of judging other people. Usually it's when I don't get why x is upsetting for a person. I've been through worse than that and it didn't break me, you know? So sometimes it does make me kind. I do like to help when I can. And genuinely helping people brings me happiness.


This thread just goes to show how much depth there is to all of us and how much we don't know.
Re the bolded: that's how you come across here.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Sep 22 2022, 11:05 am
shaqued_almond wrote:
Well, that's part of the question. Is the new generation actually more kind?


I'm not giving up hope. I'm seeing a lot of good and good parenting.
And I've heard much older and much wiser people than I look at these generations and talk about them with admiration for hanging in there with challenges that they never had to deal with.
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Thisisnotmyreal




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Sep 22 2022, 11:51 am
8x wrote:

There is also the concept of squeezing the olive for oil for the lighting of the menorah, it says כתית למאור- crushed for light. This too is brought down to show that when we are "crushed" in galus, the ultimate result is light.


Yes but there was a mesiras nefesh before nes of purim and after and the Mesiras nefesh post Geula accomplished much more -kimu ma shkiblu. The Mesiras nefesh post Geula looks nothing like Mesiras nefesh in galus. It's motivation, a drive, to do good even when everything is comfortable. This is our Avoda today. Stay completely devoted without needing the push of galus.
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8x




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Sep 22 2022, 12:46 pm
Thisisnotmyreal wrote:
Yes but there was a mesiras nefesh before nes of purim and after and the Mesiras nefesh post Geula accomplished much more -kimu ma shkiblu. The Mesiras nefesh post Geula looks nothing like Mesiras nefesh in galus. It's motivation, a drive, to do good even when everything is comfortable. This is our Avoda today. Stay completely devoted without needing the push of galus.

Sure but unfortunately we are still very much feeling galus today too. On an individual level.
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ShishKabob




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Sep 22 2022, 12:52 pm
Thisisnotmyreal wrote:
Yes. We're going to be non stop growing and accomplishing in Geula.
Huh?
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mitzva




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Sep 22 2022, 12:54 pm
8x wrote:
Sure but unfortunately we are still very much feeling galus today too. On an individual level.

I am not sure why people interpret western galus as everything is comfortable.
it is as clear as day that our children are dealing with hardship.
is it because we have led lighting?
or more square footage in living space? which makes it rediculously hard to get your errands/ going to shul/ back and forth from school related activities?
or more clothes that belong in the garbage after a season?
more products in the supermarket?
I honestly dont get it.
There is suffering and more suffering every which way you look.
and there is hardship and hardship every which way you look.
and kosher and non/kosher activities and lifestyle is blurry and confusion....
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8x




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Sep 22 2022, 1:28 pm
mitzva wrote:
I am not sure why people interpret western galus as everything is comfortable.
it is as clear as day that our children are dealing with hardship.
is it because we have led lighting?
or more square footage in living space? which makes it rediculously hard to get your errands/ going to shul/ back and forth from school related activities?
or more clothes that belong in the garbage after a season?
more products in the supermarket?
I honestly dont get it.
There is suffering and more suffering every which way you look.
and there is hardship and hardship every which way you look.
and kosher and non/kosher activities and lifestyle is blurry and confusion....

I think it's because we (for the most part) live with religious freedom. Govts aren't trying to wipe us out or instigate their populations against us. The concept of antisemitism is widely known and understood.
But yes. We still have much suffering and pain, individually.
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Reality




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Sep 22 2022, 2:50 pm
I don't think there's one answer to this question. People go through things and some people become more compassionate and others become really judgmental.

For example, some female nurses and OBs are really empathetic to women in labor because they know first hand what they went through. Yet others have no problem marginalizing their patients experience by saying, it's not so bad, I went through it too.

The same with people who have experienced tragedies and losses etc.

My question is why? Why do some people become softer and more understanding from an experience and some people become hard and unyielding?
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Thisisnotmyreal




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Sep 22 2022, 3:01 pm
8x wrote:
Sure but unfortunately we are still very much feeling galus today too. On an individual level.


100% so were they post purim
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Inner Beauty




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Sep 22 2022, 3:58 pm
PinkFridge wrote:
I'm not giving up hope. I'm seeing a lot of good and good parenting.
And I've heard much older and much wiser people than I look at these generations and talk about them with admiration for hanging in there with challenges that they never had to deal with.

Thank you for saying positive about this generation. There is so much negative, and I feel like it is possible to have good people come from growing up without pain. I believe challenges help a person grow, but that pain is not necessary for a person to grow. A person can thrive if conditions are good-as mentioned previously in this thread: if they feel emotionally safe. I think a person can do very well in a situation that is not painful. Personally, I think it is ideal for a person to grow without pain.
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octopus




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Sep 22 2022, 4:00 pm
Really? I find the people that work in their character are the ones that build it. I've met so many people who were so engrossed in their own stuff they were very unkind to the sufferings of others. Your character does not change unless you work on yourself.
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Thisisnotmyreal




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Sep 22 2022, 4:12 pm
ShishKabob wrote:
Huh?


I'm saying we're gonna be a much better version of ourselves in Geula constantly doing and improving even without hardships.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Sep 22 2022, 5:53 pm
ShishKabob wrote:
Huh?


I don't know Chabad thought but I have heard that after Moshiach comes, everything will be so obvious that our yetzer hara will be blunted. Not eliminated but blunted. A teacher explained that we'll only get sechar then for that which we've worked on (not necessarily passed but exercised the muscles to any degree) now.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Sep 22 2022, 5:54 pm
mitzva wrote:
I am not sure why people interpret western galus as everything is comfortable.
it is as clear as day that our children are dealing with hardship.
is it because we have led lighting?
or more square footage in living space? which makes it rediculously hard to get your errands/ going to shul/ back and forth from school related activities?
or more clothes that belong in the garbage after a season?
more products in the supermarket?
I honestly dont get it.
There is suffering and more suffering every which way you look.
and there is hardship and hardship every which way you look.
and kosher and non/kosher activities and lifestyle is blurry and confusion....


And Rav Hutner said it's especially painful because now everyone is experiencing private personal challenges, vs. big communal ones. Of course, bH no Holocaust, but there is a level of loneliness within the pain now that's hard. And big.
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zaq




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Sep 22 2022, 6:25 pm
I think "suffering" is the wrong word. You can't build character without CHALLENGE and you can't know a person's character until they are challenged. Just because a person hasn't done anything bad doesn't mean they have a good character--they may simply never have been tempted to do wrong.

Character is like a muscle: if it's never challenged, it remains flabby and weak. It's only by being stressed and standing up to that stress that a muscle, and character, can grow strong.
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seltzermom




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Sep 22 2022, 10:21 pm
zaq wrote:
I think "suffering" is the wrong word. You can't build character without CHALLENGE and you can't know a person's character until they are challenged. Just because a person hasn't done anything bad doesn't mean they have a good character--they may simply never have been tempted to do wrong.

Character is like a muscle: if it's never challenged, it remains flabby and weak. It's only by being stressed and standing up to that stress that a muscle, and character, can grow strong.


Love this
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Thisisnotmyreal




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Sep 22 2022, 10:29 pm
You can challenge yourself
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