Home

Public school neighbor

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Parenting our children


View latest: 24h 48h 72h

amother




OP
 

Post Thu, Sep 22 2022, 2:44 pm
I'm really trying so hard not to judge. I truly don't want to do this, but it's becoming a real problem.

There is a family on our block that has their 10 year old son in public school because they felt none of the local yeshivas could meet his needs. I get it. I have an 11 year old on the spectrum, I kept him in yeshiva and work really hard every year to make sure appropriate accommodations are in place, and bh he does very well. I also have a neurotypical 9 year old son (and several younger children, but this is mainly the 11 and 9 year old I'm concerned about here). Needless to say, with a 10 year old neighbor, 11 and 9 play with him a lot, and it's always been perfectly fine.

The thing is, we're starting to see what the neighbor boy is picking up in school and...it isn't great. We are JPF, for reference, so while I do shelter my kids somewhat, they are exposed to plenty that I sure a lot of more RW posters here would judge me for. Point being, while I am strict about the content they consume, we do read secular books, watch age appropriate movies and tv shows etc.

Dh did tell DS11 the very basic gist of how babies are made recently, in the context of the puberty talk, and DS11 has been very mature about it, understands that this is private stuff that shouldn't be gabbed about with friends and that he should come to us with questions. And sure enough, he came to tell us that Neighbor10 has been making him uncomfortable lately and that he's also worried about his 9 year old brother (he's very protective of his younger siblings) learning stuff he's not ready for.

Apparently, the neighbor boy has been making lots of inappropriate, dirty jokes, taught DS11 and DS9 some inappropriate terms (DS9 really didn't understand, but DS11 figured it out from context and was disturbed). The kid also talks about how he has friends who are gay, trans etc, so I had to then have a talk with my kids about all that way before I was comfortable doing so. I'm really grateful DS11 trusts us and felt comfortable coming to us with this. We've talked to DS9 to get a sense of things, bh most of the concerning stuff seems to have gone over his head.

I've started finding excuses not to let them play together while I figure out what to do in the long term. I don't want to shun this boy or his family, but at a certain point, I can't keep with the status quo, not at the expense of my children. I'm at a loss here, I want to be sensitive, but I have to look out for my own. Also, just wanted to put it out there just how massively problematic public school is for frum children. It really should be an absolute, no other possible option, last resort!
Back to top

mha3484




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Sep 22 2022, 3:22 pm
Honestly, I have an almost 12 year old son in a fairly RW yeshiva that is exposed to a whole lot of stuff I would rather he not be. My son happens to be extremely intelligent so a lot of conversations have come from learning mishnayos and gemara. The one that made me the most upset was the time he picked up the artscroll gemara with english translation at shul and asked me what sodomy was.

All you need is a few kids in class of 22 to be more open and the whole class knows. His school is also more urban so going outside for recess exposes him to a whole different element.

I really focus my efforts on talking these issues out with my son and he has developed really strong values. I am proud of him for how he sees the world. As much as I wish he was more sheltered at the end of the day hes a really good kid and I don't think he is worse off for being more worldly about social issues.
Back to top

amother




Watermelon
 

Post Thu, Sep 22 2022, 3:26 pm
amother OP wrote:
I'm really trying so hard not to judge. I truly don't want to do this, but it's becoming a real problem.

There is a family on our block that has their 10 year old son in public school because they felt none of the local yeshivas could meet his needs. I get it. I have an 11 year old on the spectrum, I kept him in yeshiva and work really hard every year to make sure appropriate accommodations are in place, and bh he does very well. I also have a neurotypical 9 year old son (and several younger children, but this is mainly the 11 and 9 year old I'm concerned about here). Needless to say, with a 10 year old neighbor, 11 and 9 play with him a lot, and it's always been perfectly fine.

The thing is, we're starting to see what the neighbor boy is picking up in school and...it isn't great. We are JPF, for reference, so while I do shelter my kids somewhat, they are exposed to plenty that I sure a lot of more RW posters here would judge me for. Point being, while I am strict about the content they consume, we do read secular books, watch age appropriate movies and tv shows etc.

Dh did tell DS11 the very basic gist of how babies are made recently, in the context of the puberty talk, and DS11 has been very mature about it, understands that this is private stuff that shouldn't be gabbed about with friends and that he should come to us with questions. And sure enough, he came to tell us that Neighbor10 has been making him uncomfortable lately and that he's also worried about his 9 year old brother (he's very protective of his younger siblings) learning stuff he's not ready for.

Apparently, the neighbor boy has been making lots of inappropriate, dirty jokes, taught DS11 and DS9 some inappropriate terms (DS9 really didn't understand, but DS11 figured it out from context and was disturbed). The kid also talks about how he has friends who are gay, trans etc, so I had to then have a talk with my kids about all that way before I was comfortable doing so. I'm really grateful DS11 trusts us and felt comfortable coming to us with this. We've talked to DS9 to get a sense of things, bh most of the concerning stuff seems to have gone over his head.

I've started finding excuses not to let them play together while I figure out what to do in the long term. I don't want to shun this boy or his family, but at a certain point, I can't keep with the status quo, not at the expense of my children. I'm at a loss here, I want to be sensitive, but I have to look out for my own. Also, just wanted to put it out there just how massively problematic public school is for frum children. It really should be an absolute, no other possible option, last resort!


Totally agree with your last statement. My friend put her teen daughters into public, one ended up pregnant at 16 by a non jewish boy.
You have to put your kids first in this case and not worry about how it’s not nice to the public school boy. You just got enough evidence that your kids hanging around with that boy is absolutely dangerous to them for numerous reasons. Keep them far away.
Back to top

imorethanamother




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Sep 22 2022, 3:27 pm
Here’s the thing. No one actually likes public school, so this isn’t a real choice she’s making if she’s frum.

She may not be telling you that while the yeshivas let your son into the classroom, they refused to have her son in there. That’s an embarrassing thing to admit. I definitely think her son likely has more severe needs than your son does, so that public school looks like the better choice.

Or, and this is equally likely, she can’t afford it. Public school comes with free resources, free therapists and free busing. Yeshivas will charge her tuition, make her find and pay for a shadow full time at the rate of $20+/hour, and also she has to find and pay speech or behavioral, etc etc.

I send my son to public school. It’s awful, you’re not wrong. But sometimes we have no real choice. Daven for her children as hard as you can, and thank Hashem that your children aren’t put in this position.

ETA: yeah I wouldn’t let my kids play with him either until he shows appropriate boundaries


Last edited by imorethanamother on Thu, Sep 22 2022, 3:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top

amother




Watermelon
 

Post Thu, Sep 22 2022, 3:29 pm
mha3484 wrote:
Honestly, I have an almost 12 year old son in a fairly RW yeshiva that is exposed to a whole lot of stuff I would rather he not be. My son happens to be extremely intelligent so a lot of conversations have come from learning mishnayos and gemara. The one that made me the most upset was the time he picked up the artscroll gemara with english translation at shul and asked me what sodomy was.

All you need is a few kids in class of 22 to be more open and the whole class knows. His school is also more urban so going outside for recess exposes him to a whole different element.

I really focus my efforts on talking these issues out with my son and he has developed really strong values. I am proud of him for how he sees the world. As much as I wish he was more sheltered at the end of the day hes a really good kid and I don't think he is worse off for being more worldly about social issues.


Are you really comparing learning those terms from gemara with lehavdil elef havdalos the filthy abomination and outrageous craziness going on in the secular world today, especially the schools?! BC is commonplace for young students who are zexually active at young ages, now trans people, and saying girls are boys and vice versa…

They are not at all comparable. One is Torah! The other is moral corruption of the lowest kinds.
Back to top

mha3484




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Sep 22 2022, 3:39 pm
I think by 11 and 12 a lot of kids especially boys who learn gemara know about homosexuality, trans plus other topics. Heck my son in 3RD!! Grade asked me what a zonah was from learning yehuda and tamar and he felt his rebbe was not giving over the real definition. I grew up secular and had no idea what that meant at the age of 9. Its just different.

My only point was that for most of us that don't live in areas where its majority frum and jewish, our kids see things and hear things and are probably more exposed then we even realize especially the middle school years. We can do our best to shelter our kids but they will find out things we rather they did not in a lot of places. Because if its not this kid who happens to go to public school it could be your sons classmate in yeshiva educating them all.
Back to top

amother




OP
 

Post Thu, Sep 22 2022, 3:48 pm
Very strange that a school taught such young kids about Yehuda and Tamar. My 9 year old is doing vayishlach through the end of bereshis this year and they straight up skipped that perek and went straight to Yosef. My 11 year old is aware of what gay means, but there is no need for him to know the details of what gay people do in the bedroom, nor does he need to know about 10 year olds declaring that they're gay. He hasn't really come up against anything in gemara yet (though this is his first year of gemara, so he hasn't learned very much yet).

I will add, the school has a comprehensive zex Ed program in middle school, so DS11 will be starting that this year. It is a program that discusses things specifically through a frum, Torah Hashkafah, and I love that the school has this program. As I stated in my opening, he is already aware of how babies are made because DH told him and we agreed that it was the right time to tell him. That's not what this is about. This is about the filth and base ideas the other boy is coming home with and sharing.
Back to top

tichellady




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Sep 22 2022, 5:26 pm
I know you mean well but you do sound judgmental. kids with social problems exist whether they go to public school or yeshiva day school. yeshiva day school doesn’t accommodate every kid unfortunately and I know plenty of sweet wholesome kids doing just fine in public school
Back to top

seeker




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Sep 22 2022, 5:28 pm
Have you had a conversation with the neighbor parents about this? It's possible they don't know that their child is behaving in ways that make other children uncomfortable. If he has special needs then it is likely he's working with people who could help him make changes in this area and interact more appropriately (it is also possible that his differences might prevent him from making said changes, but you are not in a position to know). I think it would be far more appropriate to have a talk with the parent/s rather than to just start avoiding a child/family without them knowing why.

Not every public school child is using inappropriate language. Could be if he were in a yeshiva he may not have been exposed to it, but repeating it in offensive ways is a social/behavioral issue, not a school choice issue.
Back to top

rachelli66




 
 
 
 

Post Thu, Sep 22 2022, 5:33 pm
OP is this something you can bring up with the Mom or is it better just to tell your DC not to hang out with him. I am sure the Mom is hurting also if her son is speaking this way.
Back to top

amother




Acacia
 

Post Thu, Sep 22 2022, 5:46 pm
Your kids will feel more secure if you are strong enough to set boundaries and work on terminating this friendship with them. As they get older it will most likely get worse.
Back to top

amother




Winterberry
 

Post Thu, Sep 22 2022, 6:08 pm
tichellady wrote:
I know you mean well but you do sound judgmental. kids with social problems exist whether they go to public school or yeshiva day school. yeshiva day school doesn’t accommodate every kid unfortunately and I know plenty of sweet wholesome kids doing just fine in public school

Good point. I've taught in both, and tbh, the kids in the frum schools used worse language/curse words way more than the public school ones did. Now, it's very possible that's because they are naive and don't realize the literal meaning (sometimes I hear very insular frum people using bad language because they honestly think it's just slang and don't realize the crudity) but it doesn't mean a child who goes to a yeshiva will be totally sheltered from inappropriate topics or language.
Back to top

amother




Oak
 

Post Thu, Sep 22 2022, 6:22 pm
amother Acacia wrote:
Your kids will feel more secure if you are strong enough to set boundaries and work on terminating this friendship with them. As they get older it will most likely get worse.


100%
Back to top

amother




OP
 

Post Thu, Sep 22 2022, 6:28 pm
I think I probably do need to speak to the mom. How do you even have that conversation?
Back to top

amother




Daphne
 

Post Thu, Sep 22 2022, 7:43 pm
amother OP wrote:
I think I probably do need to speak to the mom. How do you even have that conversation?


This is prob your first step

Hi Mrs. blank,
I’m sure you know how much our children hang out together.

I’m sure your doing everything you can as a mother. I know it’s not easy parenting at 10yr old in this day and age, I have my own struggles.

Lately my son has been telling me about conversations our boys have been having. He is uncomfortable with many of the topics, my husband has had some conversations before about babies/ development and so on. We have emphasized this is a private topic and shouldn’t be discussed with friends, I know kids speak.

Out of no fault of your own, I believe your son picked up a lot of secular and cultural information at his school, such and gay relationships, transgender and what happens in those relationships.

These are really not topics and information I want my sons being exposed and to, especially my 9 year old.

Now you can wait for her reply and see what she offers or her reaction.

Or if you need you can do further and request her to please speak to her son to stress the importance of his exposure in his school and your sons not having that and asking that he please stay away from these topics. Even if your son brings it up and asks questions.
Back to top

amother




Watermelon
 

Post Thu, Sep 22 2022, 7:47 pm
mha3484 wrote:
I think by 11 and 12 a lot of kids especially boys who learn gemara know about homosexuality, trans plus other topics. Heck my son in 3RD!! Grade asked me what a zonah was from learning yehuda and tamar and he felt his rebbe was not giving over the real definition. I grew up secular and had no idea what that meant at the age of 9. Its just different.

My only point was that for most of us that don't live in areas where its majority frum and jewish, our kids see things and hear things and are probably more exposed then we even realize especially the middle school years. We can do our best to shelter our kids but they will find out things we rather they did not in a lot of places. Because if its not this kid who happens to go to public school it could be your sons classmate in yeshiva educating them all.


No way (in majority of cases) are they going to be as badly influenced by a yeshiva classmate than by a public school kid.
Back to top

amother




Watermelon
 

Post Thu, Sep 22 2022, 7:48 pm
tichellady wrote:
I know you mean well but you do sound judgmental. kids with social problems exist whether they go to public school or yeshiva day school. yeshiva day school doesn’t accommodate every kid unfortunately and I know plenty of sweet wholesome kids doing just fine in public school


OP isn’t making a general statement that all public school students are bad. She’s giving specific details about one particular neighbor who is a bad influence.
Back to top

amother




Watermelon
 

Post Thu, Sep 22 2022, 7:53 pm
amother Daphne wrote:
This is prob your first step

Hi Mrs. blank,
I’m sure you know how much our children hang out together.

I’m sure your doing everything you can as a mother. I know it’s not easy parenting at 10yr old in this day and age, I have my own struggles.

Lately my son has been telling me about conversations our boys have been having. He is uncomfortable with many of the topics, my husband has had some conversations before about babies/ development and so on. We have emphasized this is a private topic and shouldn’t be discussed with friends, I know kids speak.

Out of no fault of your own, I believe your son picked up a lot of secular and cultural information at his school, such and gay relationships, transgender and what happens in those relationships.

These are really not topics and information I want my sons being exposed and to, especially my 9 year old.

Now you can wait for her reply and see what she offers or her reaction.

Or if you need you can do further and request her to please speak to her son to stress the importance of his exposure in his school and your sons not having that and asking that he please stay away from these topics. Even if your son brings it up and asks questions.


I don’t think she should tell neighbor what her dh has discussed with their kids, it’s not relevant. It should be a straight up, honest conversation, starting with, “My child told me he heard such and such from your child and it’s concerning to me, and I thought you should know.” That’s it. Just the straight up facts.
Back to top
Page 1 of 1 Recent Topics

View latest: 24h 48h 72h


Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Parenting our children

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Is a school that accepts everyone the answer?
by amother
84 Yesterday at 7:10 pm View last post
ISO High School Girls Entrance Exam info
by amother
4 Yesterday at 5:33 pm View last post
Why are kids not in school
by amother
34 Yesterday at 1:45 pm View last post
What’s in it for girls who don’t do well in school?
by amother
25 Yesterday at 1:36 am View last post
Going back to school at age 35?
by amother
27 Yesterday at 1:18 am View last post