WDID? Reading level feels all wrong

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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling

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amother

Fri, Sep 23 2022, 2:41 am

DD is in a new school. They assessed her reading level and said it's significantly below grade level and they might put her in the remedial reading class. Now I'm not that mom and if my kid needs help I am very happy that it's offered. In fact I would love for her to be getting help in certain areas where it doesn't seem as available. But at the same time, at home she is reading a book that is at a high reading level for her age - not above grade level but let's say there is a range for each grade, she is reading a book that's near the top of that range while it's still the beginning of the year. I don't know all the details of how they assess comprehension but I had a conversation with DD about the book she's reading and she was able to summarize the plot of the chapter she just finished as well as discuss a prediction with reasons why (it wasn't very original because it's a mystery and her prediction is that she agrees with the character's reasoning. But she was able to share the character's reasoning with a solid understanding of the plot, in a back and forth conversation.)

Should I push the teacher to reassess her? I did have a brief talk with the teacher when she first shared the results, that was before I had checked to make sure DD is able to discuss the book she's reading. I expressed some surprise, shared that she had been in an average (as in not low) group in her previous school, and asked if she had enough time to express her responses since her speech is a little slow. The teacher seemed extremely confident in her assessment and basically brushed me off.
But now that I see what she's doing at home I'm wondering if I should bring it up again.

She does also enjoy books at the reading level she was placed at but she already read most of what I see when I google "recommended books for reading level P"

amother

Cerulean

Fri, Sep 23 2022, 7:24 am

What assessment did they use? Was it based on fluency or comprehension, or both? (Phonics is making a big comeback now so could be that's what they focused on. If so, is it decoding or reading rate, etc? They should be able to share that info with you.)

amother

Apricot

Fri, Sep 23 2022, 7:29 am

Some kids don’t read well under pressure so they test lower. I would take the whole thing with a grain of salt. I had the same issue. My kid is reading 3 grades above level now.

amother

Petunia

Fri, Sep 23 2022, 7:54 am

You should reach out to the teacher and shared what you shared here. See how she responds and ask for details regarding the testing.

Sewsew_mom

Fri, Sep 23 2022, 8:04 am

When they see a child is up to par or past the point of needing help they send them back to class. I wouldn't get involved. You may be harming your daughter by saying she's above level and truly you may not know that she needs a little extra help.
Let her go. The teacher will be in touch with you and they will assess her all the time.
I believe you have nothing to lose.

sushilover

Fri, Sep 23 2022, 9:21 am

Sewsew_mom wrote:

I disagree, especially if the child is in a new school.
Here are some things you'll want to know before you allow a child who doesn't seem to be struggling to go out for reading:

How was she assessed and how often?
Does she test well?
What is her performance like in class? (Does she need extra help from the teacher? Is she keeping up with the classroom reading? Can she answer reading question on grade level verbally and in writing?)
Is the resource room teacher more experienced/qualified than the classroom teacher?

amother

Bone

Fri, Sep 23 2022, 9:22 am

Agree with the poster above. But I would say something. Like my daughter seems to want to go out of class. She also felt a bit shy please evaluate her in 4 weeks to see if anything changed. My daughter's school had 3 groups 1 for reading fluency slow readers , group 2 for comprehension, and group 3 in the regular classroom for regular-above average reading. I was upset she was put in the fluency group which was for very slowest readers and focus on all remedial reading. my daughter was faster than the group But considered boarderline s in phonics and speed . Every time I complained that she was improving or better than her group they would tell me improvement was made in the group which was not true. Until mid year she advanced so much that she was board. I insisted she go to group 2 but at that point there was no room so they transferred her to the regular classroom group 3. She loved it. But I felt she would have gotten help for her comprehension in group 2. B"h her comprehension improved on its own over time . But that's not always the norm

amother

Springgreen

Fri, Sep 23 2022, 9:40 am

Sewsew_mom wrote:

This
As long as their goal is to send them back
Speak to the remedial teacher, not the main teacher.
Let her know what your goals are and make sure they are measurable goals.
It could be this new school expects more from their students
Mention to the remedial teacher you want to be a “partner” in your child’s education.

Also if the class is reading a book, like Anne of Green Gables (I know I’m dating myself) get it for her to read at home.

I taught ASD children. Once a VERY high functioning child was sent to my class. I knew right away a mistake was done and that he could be in the mainstream classroom with minimal support. While the students I had were non verbal and need help with daily living skills, etc.
A good teacher will realize right away where she belongs

Sewsew_mom

Fri, Sep 23 2022, 10:22 am

sushilover wrote:

I hear the logic.
I guess I'm in a school where I know I trust their opinion on how they evaluate because I see them to only have good intentions.
So first see if the school your sending your child to has the same intentions you have-which is getting your child to excel and bring out her strong points.
Otherwise I don't see the reason why a school would hire more teachers to teach in groups so every child is on the perfect level for them to excel. That seems like a waste for me.
And as a parent.. The more you sit with them and encourage to read, the faster their brain will develop and excel in these areas.

My goal is never to get my child to be like others. My goal is my children should reach her fullest potential.
Maybe you should speak with the school to see how they run and see if it's something you can trust them with.

amother

Begonia

Fri, Sep 23 2022, 10:48 am

OP is she reading at a F & P guided reading level P? What grade is she in? As both a teacher and one who administers guided reading level evaluations I have asked for my students to be reevaluated if I didn’t think the level was accurate.

amother

Fri, Sep 23 2022, 12:43 pm

Thank you for the feedback! I think the winning idea is to wait until remedial starts and talk to that teacher. Stay on the classroom teacher's good side and get the second opinion from a different person.

They tested both fluency and comprehension using Fountas-Pinell which is basically what everyone else uses.

To the other questions - we don't really know how she's keeping up in class because they haven't done much reading in class yet. I think they were working on other things while conducting assessments and it's still early in the year.

She tests well in writing. Verbally she is a little slow but if you give her time to get the words out she does ok.

I think if I had her read the class books at home then she would be really bored reading them again in class.

She is in 5th grade and currently reading the first Harry Potter which I believe is spot on grade level - technically it's been rated as F&P level V or something, I know a lot of 5th graders read it. She seems to be understanding it fine.

I'll ask for an update from the school after the holidays.

amother

Cerulean

Fri, Sep 23 2022, 12:56 pm

I've used F&P. Probably the fluency part is what affected her scores. Could also be they used non fiction texts, which isn't as easy to get high scores on. (You are supposed to switch off with fiction and non fiction to get accurate results.)

amother

Fri, Sep 23 2022, 1:07 pm

So with fluency, she has a slow speech cadence but very accurately. Even in regular talking since she was very young, she always enunciated. She also speaks with a robust vocabulary, which she probably picked up by reading because most people don't talk that way (yesterday she said her classroom was frigid. Not that that's such a hard word but what kid uses frigid instead of freezing?)

I don't know if they used fiction, nonfiction, or both. Good question. I don't think she's any worse off in nonfiction because she's smart about things like understanding and explaining how things work.

Anyway I'm not that mom who knee-jerk says "my kid is the smartest and shouldn't be in the low group." I just really think it's strange. But I will wait until after yom tov and talk to the reading teacher, or if she's not in remedial then I'll ask the classroom teacher if she can revisit the level to see if anything changed over time - that should go over better than reopening a conversation we just had this week.

amother

Cerulean

Fri, Sep 23 2022, 2:16 pm

From what I remember with F&P the fluency piece really that drives the assessment, especially whether to stop testing at a certain level or keep going. And as the levels go up, both the fiction and the non fiction texts can have very complex words. And for non fiction the comprehension questions can be very involved.

amother

Brunette

Fri, Sep 23 2022, 5:28 pm

It sounds like her oral reading fluency is low. I taught remedial reading at that level for several years. What I found is that sometimes students will test into remediation because of their low fluency scores. But these kids were able to read silently and comprehend at grade level, and sometimes above.

I don’t know that sending her to remedial reading and waiting for her to test out is the right move. I have found that less experienced remedial teachers rely heavily on the oral fluency scores which means she would get stuck there. Meanwhile the student isn’t benefitting from remediation because most of the interventions do not focus on oral reading rate.

notshanarishona

Fri, Sep 23 2022, 5:48 pm

First of all it’s possible she scored lower because was unfamiliar with the testing the school uses or it’s possible their learning is ahead of your previous school. I would let her (anyways I am of the opinion that every child can benefit from some small group instruction) and reassess in a month or two .

amother

Natural

Sat, Sep 24 2022, 9:48 pm

Good for you for doing what's best for your daughter! I use F & P at my school and level P is grade level for 3rd grade. I have high level readers who read at a Q and end up as an R or even S. So if your daughter is reading at a level P in 5th grade, then yes that's below level. It could be comprehension wise she's on grade level but maybe decoding is where she is falling behind. Sometimes I have students who understand what they read but they read extremely slowly or are making multiple mistakes. IYH the reading group will help your daughter succeed!

amother

Sun, Sep 25 2022, 12:05 am

amother Natural wrote:

I know that P is low for 5th. I just don't know if I believe that she's on P.

amother

Tiffanyblue

Sun, Sep 25 2022, 12:38 am

I'm a fourth grade teacher.

I see what my students take it of the school library.
Anywhere from low level like magic treehouse or box car children to regular fourth grade, like baker's dozen and by times, to higher level like the secret garden and books by meir uri gottesman, bamboo cradle, memoirs.

I don't know about harry potter because it's not encouraged in my school and I've never read it. I definitely had a high fourth grade reader who had already read Harry Potter.

Your daughter didn't score low for no reason. Whether it was confidence our decoding our whatever, please get to the root of the problem and help her.

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