In-town yeshivish- how much clothing for a kallah?

amother

IndianRed

Thu, Sep 29 2022, 8:57 pm

amother NeonOrange wrote:

Why isn't an adult who is getting married capable of realizing he has holey underwear and socks??? Why is it the mothers issue? If a guy can't buy his own underwear or figure out how to buy his own underwear there are prob other issues too.

Good point. Same for the posters who mentioned newly married guy with stained or smelly clothing. If you are ready to get married, you should be aware of basic hygiene standards!!! (I will say that I once dated a guy who showed up on a first date with stained clothing and BO. No he wasn't in yeshiva, though he was yeshivish. He was a working guy. Anyway, I don't know what his undergarments looked like, because it was a one and done date, as the huge stain on his outer clothing was already a red flag to me. After reading this thread, I can only imagine TMI

Sewsew_mom

Thu, Sep 29 2022, 9:00 pm

amother NeonOrange wrote:

Because some mothers don't allow their children to learn how to take care of themselves. They think sheltering and directing them how to move each second is healthy. So it is a mothers fault for not bringing up a child properly.. And its a child's responsibility to grow up before marriage. So blame the parents.. But a child needs to be be responsible and look out for himself at marriagable age.
Girls out there... Stop treating your husband like a child. Your the only one who will lose. They should be coming into marriage prepared for marriage. And that includes clean undergarments.

amother

Stoneblue

Fri, Sep 30 2022, 12:49 am

amother Banana wrote:

I was also wondering about mothers buying underwear for their adult sons. Yes, I do have a married son and he bought his own underwear.
And if a girl has to buy tights a week after sheva brachos, what's the tragedy? Who has to know about it?

The tragedy is rather on the other foot in our current setup. The kallah has enough tights to last her for a good while, but tights are being rationed for the rest of the siblings. The parents had to go beyond their means to buy all the 'shtafir' for the kallah, and now they don't have enough means to cover the necessities for the rest of the household.

amother

Mustard

Fri, Sep 30 2022, 1:04 am

amother Bisque wrote:

Quote:

There is a likelihood that you'll need new clothing regardless because figures often change once you become s*xually active.

Wait, what? Is this a thing?

No. But early pregnancies and miscarriages do cause these changes and it's likely the young couple isn't sharing everything. Also infertility medication causes changes, and differences in diet and how much exercise you get....
For example, men after their marriage usually put on weight, because they are eating more. Smile

DustyDiamonds

Fri, Sep 30 2022, 1:45 am

amother NeonOrange wrote:

I’m an adult who has been married for over two decades, and due to this thread I just looked closely at my underwear, and Lo and behold, it’s got a hole! Wouldn’t have noticed until it got bigger normally!

I’m going to assume most men are far less likely to notice these things, and can use guidance about these topics when they are about to begin marriage! It’s not like our boys have ever lived in coed dorms or in a lifestyle where others looked closely at their underwear!

imaima

Fri, Sep 30 2022, 3:39 am

amother Zinnia wrote:

Marriage by us doesn’t mean adulting these days.
It means having a kosher way to be in a relationship.

Finally
Thank you
How in the world can this principle work in frum circles: „if you are old enough to get married, you pay yourself bla“?

This phrase is from the secular world where people are engaged for years when they are saving up for the wedding.

A big elephant in the room is that people get married early to have sx. In this sense it is unfair to push them out of the nest „now you are on your own, pay yourself“. You raised them in the 18th century culture where you value celibacy and you are not allowed to be officially „in a relationship“ because your reputation will suffer. Often gave them substandard education but expectations of luxury when it comes to wedding party and gifts. And then they also are supposed to pay for everything!

I think chassidish circles are much more honest in this case where they admit: no they are not adults, they are treated like kids, keep eating with their parents multiple times a week, provide tons of help with the grandkids etc. Yes they are married kids barely out of their teens and they don’t have to carry the world on their shoulders yet. And the parents foot the bill because they take the responsibility for their own child raising choices.

When you raise kids with the idea that sx is only after the wedding but the wedding cannot happen because you didn’t save up for it yet and can’t afford new stockings yet and not done with your Masters yet, then who can wait for so long?!

Last edited by imaima on Fri, Sep 30 2022, 3:44 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

IndianRed

Fri, Sep 30 2022, 6:32 am

imaima wrote:

Sorry I don't buy this. The value of a Jewish marriage goes way beyond just the "convenience" of having an available s*xual partner. How degrading if that's all it boils down to. Furthermore, having some good older single friends who have maintained their level of frumkeit, you'd be surprised "how long" people can, and do, wait, if they "need" to. Being an eizer kenegdo is about way more than s*x; look at eishes chayil, a Jewish wife's praises is also not to be reduced to that of only the physical.
How distorted if that's what everyone is celebrating at a wedding, not that 2 people are joining together to hopefully build a family and be another link in our mesorah, nope, just that they now can have s*x.

amother

Stoneblue

Fri, Sep 30 2022, 8:27 am

amother IndianRed wrote:

Exactly. 100%. To add to that - we don't even include any prep for them to be able to build a family and start life. We simply keep them away from adulting, have them have no responsibilities to their future, yet treat them as kings/queens with the most expensive jewelry, gifts and stuff. That is a perfect recipe for entitlement, bad middos and a difficult start to life.

Which is precisely what we have today.

imaima

Fri, Sep 30 2022, 10:18 am

amother IndianRed wrote:

Yes however you cannot expect masses to keep celibacy till 25 while figuring out adulting.
For every ehrlich older single out there I can find five 612-ers and I cannot judge them.

Jewish marriage doesn’t boil down to just sx.
But making people keep all shomer negiah while expecting them to meet ever growing standards „all by themselves“ is lacking integrity.

What we celebrate at the Jewish wedding is the commitment and leap of faith of the couple, regardless of their age.
But I argue not the essense of the Jewish marriage but the integrity and honesty of the parental approach in expectations of married children.

amother

IndianRed

Fri, Sep 30 2022, 10:34 am

imaima wrote:

When I say older singles I don't mean 25 year olds. Lol. I'm talking way older, like a decade older. Yes, some may slip but the vast majority do not.
Integrity and honesty of the parents? What does that even mean? It's just blindly following along with peer pressure. Because that's what people did in Europe. But a dowry and support back then was nothing like nowadays. I read an interview of the daughter of the chofetz chaim, published in the book Daughters of Destiny. When she got engaged her father signed a pledge to support them (giving them 1 room in his house + meals) with a caveat that if he could no longer afford it then he it was null and void and he would not have to sell any of his belongings to still provide for them.
BTW people didn't always get married so young in pre war Europe. Plenty of yeshiva guys were in their mid 20s when they married. (I think Rav Shteinman was close to 30.) Because of the poverty. People couldn't afford to marry/marry off their kids & that was on the simplest, most basic of levels. Nothing like nowadays.
Thank G-d btw that girls today can make a decent living and support themselves. Because plenty of girls never married at all due to lack of money. Why do you think so many teenage girls immigrated on their own to America at the turn of the century? Because otherwise they'd be stuck being a household domestic at best for the rest of their lives and never marry. Read the true life journal of Rachel Calof to see how bleak her marriage prospects were back in Russia so that her best option was becoming a mail order bride (which didn't give her happily ever after marriage btw). And if girl gets a job and therefore needs to "wait" a couple of years before getting married, so what?
(And you don't need a years worth of tights supplies to marry, either! )

DVOM

Fri, Sep 30 2022, 1:24 pm

amother Charcoal wrote:

True. One of the things I am most proud of is that when dh was between jobs (he has two graduate degrees and could not find a job for a year) he took a job working for one of these seasonal businesses. It was demeaning for him but he stepped up to the plate to support his family and I could not be prouder (or more grateful to Hashem for having brought us through that tough stage).

Op, if your daughter is working she can contribute to whatever new clothes she needs. That’s what I did.

I really relate.

In between semesters during graduate school, my husband worked for a caterer, a handyman, fixed watches, whatever he could get.

Hard working, responsible, taking initiative are such attractive, respectful qualities in a man.

Last edited by DVOM on Fri, Sep 30 2022, 1:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

DVOM

Fri, Sep 30 2022, 1:43 pm

Regarding the bride and grooms clothing:

As a young unmarried woman in my 20s, I was in school, working, and dating. All of those required me to have 'nicer' everyday clothes, all of which I purchased myself (working, remember?).

When I got engaged, I bought a few dresses for sheva brachot, new underwear and pj's to replace whatever looked worn (purchased myself). My husband bought himself new underwear, undershirts, sox, a few new shirts and pants, and a suit for our wedding. My parents paid for half a wedding, a gown, and some household goods.

I can understand some new clothing. But a whole new wardrobe? Doesn't make much sense to me.