Shocking: Pfizer says vax was never tested regarding stoppin

amother

Calendula

Thu, Oct 13 2022, 9:08 am

amother Azalea wrote:

The vaccine manufacturers did not misrepresent the vaccine, either.

Did governments misrepresent it? Some did, some didn't.
Did laypeople misrepresent it? Far too many did.
Did news sites misrepresent it? Some did, some didn't.
Did rabbis misrepresent it? Quite possibly.

You complain about people claiming that others were "grandma killers" and "selfish," but on the other side there were attacks of anyone pro-mask or pro-vax being "sheeple," "paranoid," "selfish" and "irresponsible" for not prioritizing routine over everything else, and they were also told to stay home forever if they didn't want to roll the covid dice.

The pandemic brought out the ugly in a lot of people on both sides of the divide. It also showed a lot of problems in the governments of various places, and in how news sites operate and how people read and consume news.

But from there to blaming the misinformation on the vaccine companies themselves? When apparently part of the issue is that not everyone even understands what "transmission" of a virus means? That's a really far stretch and claiming that the vaccine companies misrepresented what they were testing for is just wrong.

They did misrepresent. Same way they claim the booster is safe and effective and it was only tested on mice. Stick up for them all you want. But they were not 100% truthful. Why did Pfizer want to hide the data for so many Years if they are so honest?

And obviously it isn't nice to make fun of people who are pro vaxxers and maskers but nobody forced them to do anything. On the flip side many anti covid vaxxers were forced to mask and vax against their will. So it's not really a good comparison. When you take people's freedom away they will protest and say things against it.

amother

Plum

Thu, Oct 13 2022, 9:22 am

amother Azalea wrote:

I'm putting in paragraph breaks so that I can actually read what you wrote.

You have no idea what I want for Israel OR America. Nor do you know what I think of what China has been doing. And in addition, you are forgetting that China had a very very long stretch with no covid.

You're right that the covid vaccines intended for the original strain don't work on omicron. That's not a surprise. Masks were never used right, so of course they didn't work, and that's not a surprise either. I don't know anyone who got five vaccines, or that such a thing was even approved anywhere in the world. Nor do I think it is wise to presume that anyone who got covid still has antibodies.

I don't argue how other people's governments abused power. So I'm not going to argue about if or how the US government abused its power. I've heard enough to make me glad that I don't live in the US, because the pandemic there was mishandled from beginning to end.

The vaccines were absolutely tested and they did work but no one expected them to work for every strain.

If Fauci made millions off the vaccine then that needs to be investigated because it sounds unethical for a man in his position to be profiting off a medical product.

The vaccines were not "tested on an entire population," that's not how the testing process works.

Baby formula is still on the market decades later despite the fact that it comes with well-known risks. Yet for those who need it the formula is literally lifesaving so we leave it on the market. Same for the covid vaccine. (And we leave formula on shelves because women's organizations, which have big bucks, don't want it off the market, since formula being removed from shelves limits women to nursing only and also limits their option to be baby-free whenever they wish. Therefore, big bucks keep formula on shelves despite the fact that it's not healthy for mother or baby. So without getting into the formula debate, let's just agree that there are big bucks there as well.)

But no one forces everyone to use baby formula. It's an option, and mothers are treated as reasonable and responsible people who can be trusted to weigh the pros and cons and make the decision that works the best for them.

The vaccine was forced onto many people who didn't want it, with the threat of losing their jobs or other freedoms.

amother

Azalea

Thu, Oct 13 2022, 9:22 am

amother Calendula wrote:

Do you understand how the boosters work? Do you know how the annual flu shot - considered safe, even though it protects against different strains each year - works?

Pfizer has not hidden the fact that it was only tested on mice. But then again, the only thing that's different in the booster is the exact strain it protects against. That's the only thing that needs to be swapped out. The omicron booster went through the exact same process as the flu shots do - and they are considered both safe and effective (with efficacy depending on the year, obviously).

I assume Pfizer doesn't want its competitors to have access to their data.

No...it is a good comparison. Let's take Israel. One family, one single family (yes their identities are known) forced omicron on half the country - including millions of Israelis who until then had successfully avoided contracting covid, presumably because they did not want to contract covid and therefore took proper precautions - precautions which did work with the previous waves but not with omicron. The end result is the same as when an under-1 infant whose parents vaccinate according to schedule contracts measles: A group of people forced their own worldview and decisions on the infant and its family, making their health decisions for them and rolling the dice for them, against their will. That is taking their freedom away - and so is saying "don't go anywhere if you don't want to get covid" - just as much, if not more, than insisting that people mask in public places or find alternate places of employment if they wish not to vaccinate. Because "stay home if you don't want to get covid" means no doctor appointments, no grocery store, no playground, no mikva, no shul, nothing - for years and years, and that's much much more than just telling someone to find a different job or school, and certainly much much more than insisting someone mask only when they are in public.

Again. The pandemic brought out the ugly in our communities, our governments, our countries, our societies in general. And it turns out the ugly side is pretty ugly. So IMO it's best to leave that on the side and simply acknowledge that there is a great deal of ugliness, and enormous amount of ugliness, on both sides of the divide and across all sectors of society. To me this was a test from Hashem, that Hashem wanted us to care about each other, and we proved that we don't, that we are selfish, and colossally failed the test Hashem gave us as a community.

amother

Azalea

Thu, Oct 13 2022, 9:24 am

amother Plum wrote:

Oh, really? Employers allow nursing mothers time to pump and a place to store their milk? Or do they allow mothers to take breaks to nurse their babies?

For some reason I was under the impression that it is very difficult, if not often impossible, for a mother to avoid giving formula if she returns to in-person employment. Some mothers may get lucky but most are forced to supplement with formula or give up their jobs. And many times the employers say this explicitly.

So how is that different than telling someone to get a vaccine or find a new job?

amother

Calendula

Thu, Oct 13 2022, 9:27 am

amother Azalea wrote:

The covid booster is recommended every few months. And initially they were advertising the covid vaccine may give lifetime immunity. Explain it all you want but many lies were told. I don't know why you think otherwise when we all read them and heard them.

amother

Calendula

Thu, Oct 13 2022, 9:30 am

amother Azalea wrote:

There are laws requiring workplaces give space and time for people to pump. And you can bring a cooler and store it there. No comparison to forcing people to take a vaccine that wasn't testing for long term effects. And many pregnant and nursing moms were forced to vaccinate too despite the risks.

amother

Plum

Thu, Oct 13 2022, 9:38 am

amother Azalea wrote:

Since this happened in the us, I can say that yes, there is a law here protecting nursing women, and their employers or required to give them time and space to pump.

It's still a lot easier not to pump and just give formula. But that's a choice the mother is making, instead of being forced. And yes, the government here forced people.

amother

Azalea

Thu, Oct 13 2022, 9:48 am

amother Calendula wrote:

Who said that it gives lifetime immunity?? No scientist said that. No vaccine company said that, certainly not Pfizer.

Because that claim is sheer insanity.

Do you know why there was no vaccine for SARS when SARS 2 came around? Do you know that scientists had started working on a vaccine for SARS decades ago, but they stopped in the middle? Do you know WHY they stopped in the middle?

I'll tell you why. They stopped in the middle because they realized that the vaccine for SARS would require frequent boosters and ruin the good name of other vaccines as providing long-term immunity. SARS for some reason was not spreading like a pandemic, and that together with the short-lived immunity the vaccine would give rendered it simply not worthwhile, and not smart from a PR perspective, to continue work on a vaccine.

The covid vaccine was in the works literally for twenty years, since the first SARS outbreak. That's why vaccine manufacturers were able to turn something out in such a short period of time - because most of the basic work had already been done.

But the point is, it was clear, very clear, from the time work started on the covid vaccine, that the vaccine was not going to provide long-term immunity, and certainly not lifetime immunity.

I know SOME people thought it would. And many many people thought the virus would also provide long-term or lifetime immunity. Those people were not educated in science, and were not scientists. You're right that people thought this way. In 2020, in 2021, and today as well. But no one with any real background in science believed that either the virus or the vaccine would provide long-term immunity. Because that is just absurdity, the very idea is laughable. And certainly the vaccine companies did not make such an audacious and absurd claim - that in itself would be absurd and leave them open to multi-million-dollar lawsuits.

BTW I think Bibi said it outright as well. Way back when the shots were brand-new. There you have a politician who didn't mislead you.
https://www.israelnationalnews.....97683

And here are more people who said it way back when. I'm not finding the original articles I read (Google makes searching old stuff hard and I don't feel like sifting through millions of results), but there's enough easily available that proves this was widely known and talked about, even in early to mid-2021 - and before.

https://www.nationalgeographic.....s-why
https://theconversation.com/a-.....43370
https://www.dispatch.com/story.....7001/
https://www.businessinsider.co.....20-11
https://www.google.com/url?sa=.....ybcyB

Here, in April 2021, Pfizer's CEO said it's likely a booster will be required.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/1......html

Fauci said it in May 2021, too.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=.....p_bgN

In January 2021 - when the vaccines were first being rolled out - Pfizer and Moderna were already planning updates that would be given as booster doses.
https://www.science.org/conten.....t-new

amother

Azalea

Thu, Oct 13 2022, 9:54 am

amother Calendula wrote:

Again, many employers violate those laws. And the nursing mother is left with a choice of cave or leave, which equals forced to give formula. She can sue, but that's a time-consuming and lengthy process that does not offer her options in the here and now. (BTW nursing is protected here, too, if the woman works full-time and her baby is less than nine months old.)

Many women aren't allowed to bring a cooler, or are told that their milk will be dumped anyway.

There are zero risks to the baby if the mother is nursing, btw.

amother

Calendula

Thu, Oct 13 2022, 9:54 am

amother Azalea wrote:

It was not clear from the beginning that the covid booster would be recommended every few months. The goal posts kept changing. Yes it was said the vaccine would offer long term and maybe lifetime immunity in the beginning. You want to now say everything that was said is ludicrous...Great...say that after the fact and after many were forced to get this injection. We definitely were lied to on many fronts. Now they are coming out trying to damage control but it's too late. Many of us remember the lies. You can keep defending it but like I said before I'm not that dumb that I forgot what I was told 2 years ago.

amother

Azalea

Thu, Oct 13 2022, 10:02 am

amother Calendula wrote:

Did you read the links I posted? They are all old, most of them from 2020 and early 2021, maybe a couple are after May 2021 but most are before that.

They all show that boosters would be necessary and that it wasn't really clear how frequently but likely once or twice a year. And one of them is from Pfizer's CEO, saying that in his estimation there would be a need at least once a year, but that it isn't yet clear exactly.

Again I'm not saying people weren't ignoramuses spreading misinformation. Sure there were people like that - billions of them, unfortunately, over social media, here on ima, at various kinus events, and more. But that doesn't equal scientists making a bogus claim.

You choose who to believe. I personally am not a fan of getting scientific information from social media, ima, infographics, memes, or bigshot rabbis at conventions. Unfortunately many people DO get their information from these sources and end up with a lot of misinformation, which they perpetuate and spread, to their own detriment and the detriment of their communities.

I'm sorry you were duped by them. I'm sorry they lied to you.

But honest leaders and real scientists did not lie, and you need to come to terms with the fact that the sources you put your faith in were not honest, and that they were not scientists or vaccine manufacturers, either.

amother

Calendula

Thu, Oct 13 2022, 10:05 am

amother Azalea wrote:

Real scientists didn't lie?? Fauci, the top doctor in the US lied plenty.

amother

Azalea

Thu, Oct 13 2022, 10:08 am

amother Calendula wrote:

Really? I never heard of one person who was told they couldn't bring a cooler to work or that their employer would dump their milk.

If I tell you that there are people who lose money every time they go to the bathroom, because they have to count it as an unapproved break, or that there are people who when they start having early contractions are told to stay or that they will be called for a hearing, will you believe it?

Do you believe that women are discriminated against in the workplace? This is most of how that discrimination happens. People like to talk about wages, but really the dollar-per-hour isn't discriminating based on gender, it's just that women work less hours and at lower-paying jobs than men. The real discrimination is what happens when a woman wants to be a mother, or becomes a mother: how she is allowed to care for herself prenatally and postpartum, how she is allowed to care for her baby, and what the risks of doing those things are. (And in far too many cases the woman falls between the cracks and the law doesn't actually protect her.)

amother

Azalea

Thu, Oct 13 2022, 10:10 am

amother Calendula wrote:

Real scientists didn't lie?? Fauci, the top doctor in the US lied plenty.

Fauci, back in early 2021, spoke about boosters.

And I have already said that if Fauci did indeed receive money for the vaccines being rolled out, that needs to be investigated.

Real rabbis don't molest children or r*pe women, you know. Yet there are people who claim the title rabbi and who hold important positions who in fact do those things.

They are not worthy of the title rabbi and halachically once they do such things they are stripped of it. Similar sanctions exist for scientists who violate the ethics of science.

It's interesting that you say Fauci is a scientist. I always thought he was a politician (not in the US) with something of a background in science but who doesn't actually work in the field.