Off-the-derech children

amother

Tue, Jun 10 2008, 10:20 pm

I would. I actually came here because I am having a very hard time loving my child. I know it doesn't sound very motherly to say that. But how is it possible to love a child who rejects everything that is important to you? No matter how many times you ask for them to at least show some respect for you and your home, and they don't care.

My child is leaving in a few days, and I am counting the days. I can't wait, as I find this child to be a bad influence on the other kids. It sound terrible, and I feel horrible for saying and thinking it. I don't understand how I failed so miserably.

su7kids

Wed, Jun 11 2008, 12:54 am

amother, its not your fault. I'm sure you did the best you could.

I have one who is "different" from the rest. He has many friends who are completely off the derech, but I believe he still keeps kosher and Shabbos, which is very important to me.

I never closed the door on him, and he knows he's always welcome here, and he has enough respect to always wear something on his head when he comes in, whether its the hood of his sweatshirt, a baseball cap, or on Shabbos, a Kippah.

He told me that many of his friends feel as if they've been kicked out and he's grateful that we didn't kick him out.

He's a good boy, just had a bad rap in school. One of those situations where, with 20/20 hindsight I may have done things very differently, but at the time didn't see a choice.

mimivan

Wed, Jun 11 2008, 12:59 am

amother wrote:

Don't feel horrible. Your feelings are natural, and you do still love him, it just sounds like you are terribly disappointed and have the legitimate need of wanting to protect your other children. I found Su7's post, though, very moving in the way she has dealt with it.

I don't have children old enough to go through this, but it is the biggest fear for many frum parents, and I think there should absolutely be a forum...but I am wondering if people mind if it stays open (I could also understand if it were closed to protect identities). The reason I think it would be good to be open is that many of us are afraid of this and could learn alot from those who go through it.

Even in cases that aren't full-scale rebellion, but incidents in which are kids test the limits can be dealt with effectively with advice from people who are facing it on a daily basis,

ShiningThrough

Wed, Jun 11 2008, 4:30 am

I think it's a good idea too, and very important.
I know that for me, as a kid growing up Conservative in rural NE America, I rebeled because of all the religious hypocrisy I saw around me. I couldn't understand the discrepancies (sp?) of what we learned vs. what we did. I rejected the whole thing, only to come back to it on my own, Orthodox and spiritual, living in Israel a must (for me). (Having no extended family here a painful sacrifice.)

Now, my 2 oldest are kinda wavery... their connection to G-d is strong but the actions/mitzvot are slipping, and it saddens me. They idealize America (oy!) because they went to visit my family almost every year when they were younger, and how appealing it is! But of course, life at Grandparents' house is not reality and I'm guessing that the American influence (read: wealth, indulgence and no hardships of Israeli life), appealing as it is, has sort of captured their hearts and left them dissatisfied with their here-and-now.

I try to keep perspective and forsight, 'this too shall pass'... but I want to strenghthen them and help them stay true to Torah and Hashem.

In other words, YES, a forum/support group is a good idea! Let's do it.

freidasima

Wed, Jun 11 2008, 7:07 am

I know how you feel shining, my middle dd was just in america and everything was wonderful...but that isn't reality and when she spoke of getting a job there I reminded her about problems with vacations, shabbos and yuntif, with getting decent health care packages on a job, and basically being able to support herself on what won't be more than a secretary's salary...

On the other hand, I remember from my trips that one of the things that was so nice was that the daily pressures that we have here in EY weren't there...I didn't read the paper, I didn't want to know more than the weather there...and it was lovley...that doesn't have to do with going off the derekh but it has to do with illusions. Sometimes people who are talking about going off the derekh or are beginning to, have the illusion that being "frie" is just that...being "free" of whatever...and then when they get there, they find out that secular life has its own set of rules that have to be kept in different things....however, without wanting to bash, I find that there are a lot more charedi kids who go "off the derech" totally than MO kids...some of those just slide to the left but continue to keep kashrus, shabbos and other things while in the Charedi world, if you drop even the externals sometimes like levush you get bashed and that leads to a tendency among some kids to say, well then if they are pushing me out of society what's the difference if I don't keep levush and don't keep shabbos? Sure, there is a heck of a lot of difference, as adults we know that, but the lack of choices in terms of religious freedom within charedi society of all kinds appears to me (maybe it's only my own experiences with teenages) to make for an "all or nothing" experience which I don't find in MO...unless of course they just decide that there is no G-d and leave everything, that's a different story and can happen, lo aleinu, to anyone, whether toldos aharon or the most left wing of what was once known as the Young Israel style groups.

zufriedene

Wed, Jun 11 2008, 12:05 pm

I find it no problem to share, but feel like I"M in a showcase when others say#we want to hear, why its happening" There's no reason why its happening, its bashert Tzaar from heaven, every parent wants nachas. The first rule of this forum has to be #unjudgemental#, and if u feel u cant stick to it, Dont loiter here. Children off the derech is a gzeira min hashamyim, otherwise how do u see it happening to the best of us, and how come we manage to be mechanech 10 and only 1 BH goes off? obviously its not the chinuch or love, its something that has to do with that specific child, and his experiences at home, and at cheder that had influene on what occurred. And by the way theres no guarentee, I"ll read what hapened to others, it wont happen to me. HOpefully this will be a respectable thread, no bashing and no insults!!

amother

Wed, Jun 11 2008, 12:10 pm

I have a friend with 12 kids (KA"H), and two have gone off the derech.

I have to say that almost every single one of my friends has one child who has gone off the derech, if not totally, then partially. Even the most frum families, where the parents learn and set good examples, they have one child who is not following in the path.

One friend asked me if it was the oldest in all the families. Most of my friends, the answer is yes. So now I ask you, is it your oldest who has problems?

costanza

Wed, Jun 11 2008, 12:15 pm

I don't think being interested in this topic and wanting to hear about people's experiences has anything to do with judging them. On the contrary. We all realize that every parent wants only the best for their kids, but perhaps these situations are not entirely in the hands of Hashem. People make choices. And some may have wisdom to offer having been through such experiences.

I just read a book written by a father whose son had/has a terrible drug addiction. Although I hope to never have to live through what he did, I felt it was worthwhile to read what he had to say. And he did have some advice for parents as to what they can do and what to look out for as warning signs. If for no other reason, it may offer consolation and respite for those who can write and know that they are not alone.

zufriedene

Wed, Jun 11 2008, 12:19 pm

To aamother whose child rejects so much and is getting ready to leave home, I really feel for you. Till he hasnt actually left theres hope.HAve u ever thought how much pain he his having? MY son is BH beautifully married with a wonderful family and in the end things BSD turn out fine, and I wish u all the very best. its while u'r in that long dark tunnel thats petrifying/ My sons rosh yeshuva had a stroke this shabus, I know this may sound callous, and I hope ppl can relate to this as an experience of an adolescent, I didnt justify but it took me a mnute to recapture my senses. My son said "THe hand that slapped my face and insulted me BRabim is now paralyzed, "I couldnt believe the intensity that emerged after 15 years??? pls no bashing . THis is the experience of our children sometimes that turns them away from us, from tora and the derech altogether, they r suffering and we really dont know what to do to ease the pain/ we're involved in protecting the siblings, and maybe they dont even share with us whats happening?? What about other variety of abuses they dont dare share with us??
Lets make this forum a place where we can share pain, try to ease it and understand our children If even one child will be saved from going off the derech, DAYENU!!

zufriedene

Wed, Jun 11 2008, 12:25 pm

micfri "perhaps these situations not entirely in the hands of Hashem"
How dare u?? THats exactly what this thread should be about, no condemning parents,!! is only good looks and nachas from Hashem?? I doubt if we'll be able to share with such an attitude. Maybe ppl that feel parents contributed even one ounce to the waandering of thier child. should open up a different thread with a different title.

costanza

Wed, Jun 11 2008, 12:32 pm

Zuf, you're paranoid.

What exactly did I say that you took to be a criticism? And the fact that you are implying that I don't believe fully in Hashem isn't anything I'm going to dignify with a response.

Who said anything about placing blame? Haven't you ever made a decision for or about your kids that you thought at the time was the best decision and realized afterwards that maybe it wasn't? Come on - we all have. It doesn't make us bad parents - but hopefully it makes us wiser.