“Stop or I’ll put you outside!” - long

BrisketBoss

Tue, Nov 08 2022, 9:20 pm

amother Oxfordblue wrote:

Some older kids are especially kvetchy and whiney and carry on for literally hours. This is not appropriate behavior and unacceptable in our home. We talk to communicate and you can ask for attention too. Some kids when overtired in bad mood will overreact yell and destroy things when unhappy. Also unacceptable. These are the tantrums/behavior I am referring to.

I dont think this compares to a crying baby or older child crying because they hurt themselves.

The truth is when children feel heard there is much less 'tantruming' all around. So paying attention to your kids is really the best preventative measure.

Of course you must prevent them from destroying, but why punish them for lacking the skills to deal with their problems? That won't help anyone.

Do you feel that they are getting something out of their 'unacceptable behavior' that they couldn't get, and better, from acceptable behavior?

amother

Oxfordblue

Tue, Nov 08 2022, 9:25 pm

BrisketBoss wrote:

Children aren't afraid when parents model self regulation. The parent can briefly and calmly announce what they are about to do and why, and then do it, including if that thing is leaving the room. Then the child has that in their toolbox.

Usually when it is chaotic and children are crying yelling or destroying it is because the children are trying to get mommy's attention. It is often not the right time for mom to say "I'm getting upset now so im going to put myself in time out until I feel calmer".
Honestly often mom going to time out looks more like mom running to room and slamming the door while kids are huddled on the other side banging and yelling.

Other times this could be appropriate. Ie kids not listening coming out of bed not cleaning up toys. "I'm getting upset now. I asked for..... many times and no one is listening. I'm going to my room until I feel calm".

amother

Oxfordblue

Tue, Nov 08 2022, 9:40 pm

BrisketBoss wrote:

I'm not sure what you mean? Going to my room does not teach my child that it is not okay to kvetch whine and yell for prolonged periods. When this happends (rarely to never bh? ) I ask the child why they are upset and validate. If they continue to carry on I'll say I see how sad you are it's okay to be hurt and cry but its hurting my ears can you do that somewhere else? If it continues I will send child to their room after warning I know you're sad but it's not fair to the others in this house who are trying to.... to have to hear such loud noise" and sit with them if I can. I let them know they are welcome to rejoin as soon as they are calm. I will observe "I see you are so angry/hurt/upset/frusterated". At the end with a small child I'll say "are you ready for mommy to hug you and love you?" A big child "hug?"
This works well for us and as I said I rarely put a child in time out and if I do it's for destroying. My children dont kvetch and whine for prolonged amounts of time .

amother

Lightcyan

Tue, Nov 08 2022, 9:52 pm

Disclaimer: I only read the first couple posts.
OP, my husband is wired very similarly to your husband. He literally cannot tolerate tantrums or meltdowns. He is very much triggered by loud noises and emotional outbursts in general. He also comes from a household where there was a lot of fighting and yelling going on, although no physical child abuse as far as I know. My husband is very much against going to a therapist, so that’s not an option for us.
Because he is so triggered, he often reacts very strongly to our children’s meltdowns. This always upset me and for years it drove a very hard wedge between the two of us. I would end up yelling at my husband, comforting the victim child and totally undermining my husband and thereby driving the wedge even further. And when there’s a lack of Shalom bayis, it makes everything much much worse.
I have learned 2 things:
1) Prevention is key. Don’t be lazy like me and ignore the telltale signs of a tantrum brewing. If you see a child gearing up for a blowup, stop what you’re doing and try to talk to them calmly with eye contact. Verbally recognize their strong feelings and try to redirect them.
2) just like it is appropriate for us as mothers to treat our tantrumming child with compassion and dignity, so too it is equally important to treat our husband who is triggered and maxed out with compassion and dignity. That means putting your hand on his shoulder and saying calmly “honey, it looks like you are really stressed out over this. Why don’t you go take a breather while I take his child aside?”
And like one poster wrote, so if the child gets locked out of the house, go outside and quietly sit with the child until they calm down.
Much Hatzlacha!

amother

Brown

Tue, Nov 08 2022, 9:53 pm

amother OP wrote:

There was a quiet moment just now when the kids all went their separate ways and we were sitting alone in the living room. I asked him what his parents did when he and his sister misbehaved. He said “they beat the sh*t out of us”. I said “so that explains a lot” but he said “well, it worked”. So I asked him did it really? Did it really work? Because now you’re threatening to throw a 2 year old into our pool for a tantrum, I think we need to figure out how to handle this. He’s very against therapy but maybe I can work on getting him to open up to me.

The fact that he and his sister were beaten - the sh*t out of - when they misbehaved never came up before? Is this his first time sharing with you about this aspect of his upbringing? You said in your original post that you wondered whether he was abused as a kid but that it didnt sound like you were either confident or understood to what extent.

You have a 10 year old, which means you have know each other for quite some time already. If he has never shared those experiences, then for him to start discussing it so openly may be a watershed moment. Could only imagine how deeply buried those experiences were in his psych, but maybe he - and you - will have the opportunity for them to be addressed and worked through.

Much hatzlocha and healing

amother

Tue, Nov 08 2022, 10:24 pm

amother Lightyellow wrote:

As a child that was beaten I also can’t deal with tantrums. It sets off alarms in my head and I just desperately want it to stop now. I often go to my room and put headphones on. But the pull to just put the kid in a room and shut the door is strong. He’s having a fight or flight response. For the time being of there are tantrums you should be there to help deal with it.

Thank you so much for sharing this. I was never beaten but my mom always shamed my siblings and I, so between my husband and I we’re trying so hard to handle this stuff in a better way. I went to therapy for a year though, but he didn’t. I truly think it would be devastating for him to open those old wounds. Lots and lots of family stress, financial problems, “primitivi” family rules/expectations, etc

amother

Tue, Nov 08 2022, 10:32 pm

amother Brown wrote:

Thank you. To your first point, yes, he had mentioned to me that his father would smack him if he was really bad. I guess I overlooked it because he said it so nonchalantly. Today was the first time he worded it the way he did.
And I do agree it would be a watershed moment to get him to open up about this stuff. I think he feels a deep loyalty and had great respect for his parents and saying anything negative about them would be wrong. Just my gut feeling.

amother

DarkGray

Wed, Nov 09 2022, 12:20 am

Aside from dealing with his trauma,
It sounds like he has no clue how to respond. Telling him what not to do when they children tantrum won’t help him know what he SHOULD do.
Maybe you can start by giving him very specific steps to take, and also let him know that those steps may not stop the tantrum (so he doesn’t give up right away) but IS how to deal with it…

salt

Wed, Nov 09 2022, 12:50 am

Let your DH go for a walk when child has a tantrum. For some people it's very difficult to keep their cool when kids are really screaming, I can really understand him.
You admit it's also hard for you, but you are probably better at controlling yourself and have taught yourself to ignore.
I would say, "DH, don't worry, she'll cool down soon, go out and take a walk for 10 minutes, and then call and I'll tell you if you can come back.
She's only 2, she'll grow out of it."

ora_43

Wed, Nov 09 2022, 3:30 am

BrisketBoss wrote:

It sounds like the problem OP is talking about is that her husband is triggered by tantrums. Why would anyone punish a tantrum?

Tantrums are meant to be triggering. As in, the tantruming kid is deliberately pushing buttons, that's what a tantrum is.

People punish it because they have the view of like "if I don't deal with this now, s/he will always act like this." IOW that tantrums are something you have to punish or the kid will never learn to behave better.

Which IMO is only half wrong. Kids really do need to be taught that while it's OK to be upset, it's not OK to take it out on everyone around them. Even little kids can be taught this.

But that needs to happen with a much more gentle approach. When the adults lose control, the tantruming kid is very much not learning self-control.

(going on a definition here where 'tantrum' isn't just 'prolonged crying' but like, hitting, kicking, destroying things, and/or screaming/crying very (deliberately) loudly)