Removing tag filter

BH Yom Yom

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 8:09 am

seltzermom wrote:

For some reason I don’t put any filter on my phone. I’m in my forties and don’t have big teivos that I’m worried about. Food on the other hand! That’s another story. Wish I had a filter to what goes on my mouth.

But also regarding tag. I don’t believe in relinquishing my personal autonomy. I would never allow something that is personal and nobody’s business to be viewed or reviewed at their own discretion. It just turns my stomach.

Why can’t everyone just buy a basic filter online? Why the added invasiveness of somebody watching everything you do. Does a volunteer or employee really need to know that I’m researching some sort of medical issue or child caring issue or mental health issue or just candy, deodorant and dresses?

This.

amother

Obsidian

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 8:40 am

amother Lightgreen wrote:

How much does it cost to remove

it's not a question of "how much does it cost" to remove in financial terms. We're talking in spiritual terms.
Tag has been doing and continues to do amazing shmirah work for all of us Klal....and yes, there are annoying "side effects" when dealing with a filter, and in this case - a rotten apple in the bunch.
But this does not disqualify what good work Tag is trying to do on the whole.
This whole thing only came up due to a very unfortunate and rare story. (well, we hope rare Sad

amother

Canary

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 8:43 am

All these filters use the same open source code. My husband wouldn't let us use TAG or Gentech. We use the open source filter and tweak it to meet our personal standards. I was so annoyed with him when he told me we aren't using the established companies. I thought he was being cheap. Then this story came out ... And I see he was being practical and realistic.

amother

Outerspace

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 8:49 am

amother Obsidian wrote:

There is also the option of signing up with a basic filter on your own, with an established, not Jewish, company, that is less intrusive.

amother

Leaf

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 8:56 am

amother Outerspace wrote:

There is also the option of signing up with a basic filter on your own, with an established, not Jewish, company, that is less intrusive.

Right, why does it have to be TAG? Why are so many schools requiring their services only be used?
If a school insists on a filter, let people choose. Give a list of acceptable filters and let people choose which one and how they will get it installed.
Is it because they don't trust parents' word? Well, I am sure there are plenty of people who dutifully brought devices into TAG to get registered and filtered and then have other undisclosed devices that the school doesn't know about. Or their kids do. There simply is no way to control people's internet access to such an extent. That's the bottom line.

amother

Leaf

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 9:08 am

amother Bisque wrote:

You can install many filters on your own, directly with the filtering company. You don't need TAG to do it for you.

Exactly. But it sounds like there are schools that require parents to do it through TAG.
Remember those threads around the asifa time where someone's child's school's principal had spilled the beans about the "contract" he had signed with TAG? And other people chimed in saying they'd heard of this, too.

Now, I don't believe there is anything inherently nefarious in this contract other than money (TAG must somehow make money off it, whether it’s through commissions from the filters they install or some sort of fee the parents pay) but it's really really troubling none of this has been put out there openly. You can't expect people to trust you when you aren't completely open about how things work.

And when it's a moneymaker, people are entitled to choose whose services they use.

amother

Cherry

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 9:10 am

amother Watermelon wrote:

I used to work for tag. No, they can’t access your pictures. That’s ludicrous. The only thing they know is the name of the sites you request to unblock. And they have so many customers they don’t remember who you are.

And what if of all the customers they bump into their brothers ex, or hot neighbor they’ve always side eyed, or anyone else of interest?

You do realize that the tag employees are our community members?

amother

Saddlebrown

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 9:10 am

amother Leaf wrote:

Even when it's not a moneymaker, people are entitled to choose whose services they use.

amother

Leaf

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 9:12 am

amother Saddlebrown wrote:

Even when it's not a moneymaker, people are entitled to choose whose services they use.

I can't disagree with that.
I guess I mean "even more so" when you are a paying customer.
It's also extremely troubling they went to such an extent to insist they don't make a penny, it's all staffed by volunteers, and only begrudgingly admitted when pressed that yes SOME employees get a salary. Again, it shows a lack of trustworthiness when a place is not forthcoming about basic information like that. Comes across as shady and I prefer not to pay for/use services of a shady operation.

amother

Tan

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 9:14 am

TAG can not see your images or texts or notepad entries. The only thing they can see is your browsing history and apps, and I don't know if that's every employee.

They also can't control your device remotely without cooperation from your side.

When you ask them to open a URL they don't log into your device, they do it on their database. Your device is always connected to the filter database. When your browser sends a request to open a URL, it's first scanned thru the filter to see if it contains any of the categories that are blocked on your account and then either allows you to open it or blocks the page. This goes thru AI, not a human, but it does slow down your internet a bit. If you request access to a blocked site, a human will have to review it. Usually it's approved, if it's on a higher level blocklist you have to call in for support.

If you're concerned about a rogue employee installing malware on your device, well, you're just going thru that same risk when you're asking them to remove it.

amother

Tan

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 9:18 am

Also, if you're so concerned about your browsing history I beg you to take a look at it now.

As for me, over the last 10 minutes I've opened about 30 URLs. I can scroll through for a while and still only be up to yesterday. No, I am not concerned that someone is bored enough to keep an eye on my browsing history.

amother

Leaf

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 9:29 am

amother Tan wrote:

I don't personally care about my browsing history. I don't go on questionable sites. However, I would have a problem with having to ask permission to access a site, not to mention if it wouldn't get approved. Let's say I want to access YouTube and the TAG employee says no you are not approved. (What is the approval based on??) So that's it? I can go to a neighbor or the library or hey, just get a new device that I don't take to TAG and can view whatever I want. The whole thing is silly.

amother

Saddlebrown

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 9:39 am

amother Tan wrote:

Both of your posts only speak to the idea that one can't easily or accidentally have access to your data. It does NOT speak to someone who has ill intent and intentionally wants to access your data. A tech savvy person can bypass all of these checks very quickly.

And what about the idea if the community decides to exercise further control? Lets say the schools or Rabbonim authorize TAG to upgrade everyone's filter. Would you be ok with that being forcefully imposed upon you?

What about the idea of needing to give a reason why I want my filter downgraded. If I need more access because of medical reasons or work related reasons, do I have to identify that to their employees?

What about if the school is looking for more info on you. If they're working hand in hand with TAG, there's the possibility that they can request personal info from tag.

Why would anyone willingly place themselves in that position. Filters are available elsewhere and you have full control how to manage those filters. More importantly, no outsider can exercise any control over those filters. Most importantly, your data is in safer place than it is within our heimishe companies.

amother

Tan

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 9:45 am

amother Leaf wrote:

The way TAG filters are different than regular filters is that they don't just block p-rn, they allow you to block a whole bunch of categories that have their own pitfalls. For example social media, humorous sites, news, forums, religion, even shopping. It can be set based on the user's preferences, but usually if you're installing it on behalf of a mosed it'll have to be according to their standards.

I had them open up Facebook for instance, when I needed it for work. I said I'm social media manager at work and need it open on my pc. They did it no problem.

They asked for verification of last 4 digits of cc, when I installed filter etc. to make sure it's not a kid bypassing their parents safeguards.

As for a specific YouTube video, let's say Meron live or if I had a direct link they would also open that link no problem.

(Gentech/Livigent filter also has a YouTube filter which blocks inappropriate videos while keeping YouTube unblocked.)

So yeah, if someone installs a filter because they want to guard themselves, then they ask to open something big like Youtube they're just defeating the purpose. If they didn't really want to do it and they had to because of the mosed, well that's silly.

amother

Saddlebrown

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 9:46 am

amother Leaf wrote:

The whole concept of this is childlike and inappropriate for adults. The Torah provides no concepts to police adults. It is nothing more than a method of control and power.

It's as you said, I can have 2 or 3 or 5 devices and just give one to TAG to pretend I'm in compliance. If adults don't do in on their own volition, such tactics are pointless and pathetic. Encourage people to make appropriate decisions as per their individual needs, and zehu. Teach, provide guidance and solutions and then leave the rest in the hands of adults. If a community believes it needs to treat adults like children, then there is something quite wrong in their system.

amother

Tan

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 9:51 am

amother Saddlebrown wrote:

Look, I'm not that certain about my privacy in any case. Did you know that there are 20 year old girls that know exactly who's undergoing fertility treatments because they work for a bookkeeping company with access to Bonei Oilam's medical records? (details changed but yeah.)

Someone tech savvy with ill intent directly against me can access my data without me having TAG or them working for TAG. I just don't see the need for paranoia.

amother

Saddlebrown

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 9:56 am

amother Tan wrote:

Those 20 year olds know ONE thing about you - (and have probably signed confidentiality agreements and work under Federal/State laws). Someone who has access to your phone has access to almost EVERYTHING about you. From your finances, to your medical history, when you go to the mikvah (GPS, or location tracking), your private conversations, to all communications, etc.

amother

Saddlebrown

Fri, Nov 18 2022, 10:00 am

amother Tan wrote:

Someone tech savvy with ill intent directly against me can access my data without me having TAG or them working for TAG. I just don't see the need for paranoia.

This is quite naive. Someone who works for TAG and has ill intent has daily temptations and tools easily accessible to him. An outside person would have to go to considerable lengths to get that very same info. Hence the reason why larger national companies have very strict rules, and why the gov't has instituted very firm privacy laws.