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Forum
-> Computers, Phones and Devices
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amother
Molasses
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 Sun, Nov 20 2022, 11:50 am
| socialbutterfly wrote: | Agreed.
If a child want to watch p*rn how does any lesson of interest safety stop that from happening? |
Lol and filters aren't going to stop them either.
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amother
Amaryllis
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Sun, Nov 20 2022, 11:51 am
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Rabbonim pasken based on information they are given. If you feel that they are mistaken in their public statements, ask them a shaalah based on the information you have.
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amother
Bluebonnet
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Sun, Nov 20 2022, 11:52 am
| socialbutterfly wrote: | | Don’t think she’s referring to the study of the internet. I believe she’s referring to the Torah idea of guarding one’s eyes…. |
No matter how much one learns Torah, one still needs to have a deep understanding how the internet works and how it relates to everyday life to give guidance about it.
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socialbutterfly
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Sun, Nov 20 2022, 11:54 am
It will create plenty and plenty of hurtles to jump through. Don’t tell me it’s a useless tool. That’s just silly. It’s impossible to completely eradicate something from someone who desires it so much, but doesn’t mean you should give up on sheltering your children. Especially a child who stumbles upon it.
Your logic is flawed. To give an extreme example… you have a child who is fascinated by knives. It’s possible he’ll figure out a way to get them out of the child proof drawers in your kitchen. Will you not still put that safety tool in place? What you’re suggesting is just leaving those knives right in the open…
Last edited by socialbutterfly on Sun, Nov 20 2022, 11:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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socialbutterfly
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Sun, Nov 20 2022, 11:54 am
| amother Bluebonnet wrote: | | No matter how much one learns Torah, one still needs to have a deep understanding how the internet works and how it relates to everyday life to give guidance about it. |
Funny that people think modern day rabbanim live under rocks…
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amother
Bluebonnet
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Sun, Nov 20 2022, 12:11 pm
| socialbutterfly wrote: | | Funny that people think modern day rabbanim live under rocks… |
They don't live under a rock but neither do many have the insight that's needed to give guidance. Again, it's not either or. Its not black or white. They can be very well learned, not living under a rock, yet quite limited when it comes to an understanding of the internet. Even more so, as it relates to the routine of life nowadays.
Many of the 50+ generation are in the same boat. The Rabbonim don't have magical powers.
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amother
Impatiens
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Sun, Nov 20 2022, 12:21 pm
| amother Bluebonnet wrote: | They don't live under a rock but neither do many have the insight that's needed to give guidance. Again, it's not either or. Its not black or white. They can be very well learned, not living under a rock, yet quite limited when it comes to an understanding of the internet. Even more so, as it relates to the routine of life nowadays.
Many of the 50+ generation are in the same boat. The Rabbonim don't have magical powers. |
This is lashon hara to say they don’t have insight. Do you really think they just make snap decisions about things they don’t know anything about? And if there’s an area in your personal life that needs a fine tuned psak, you’re welcome to ask it.
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amother
Impatiens
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Sun, Nov 20 2022, 12:31 pm
| amother Bluebonnet wrote: | | Teaching kids about internet safety and having rules/oversight in place are not mutually exclusive items. They go hand in hand. |
Not for the OP. The whole point of this thread is that somehow no one needs a filter.
Even I need a filter, and I have zero desire to search for these things.
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amother
Bluebonnet
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Sun, Nov 20 2022, 12:36 pm
| amother Impatiens wrote: | Not for the OP. The whole point of this thread is that somehow no one needs a filter.
Even I need a filter, and I have zero desire to search for these things. |
I don't know what OPs intent was in her post. My point is that not EVERYONE needs a filter. For adults, the need is as per their discretion.
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amother
Molasses
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Sun, Nov 20 2022, 12:42 pm
| amother Impatiens wrote: | Not for the OP. The whole point of this thread is that somehow no one needs a filter.
Even I need a filter, and I have zero desire to search for these things. |
I don't have a filter. I have never searched for anything I would be ashamed of.
I also have my phone with me at all times and even if not, it's locked.... my kids don't have access.
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amother
Bluebonnet
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Sun, Nov 20 2022, 12:48 pm
| amother Impatiens wrote: | | This is lashon hara to say they don’t have insight. Do you really think they just make snap decisions about things they don’t know anything about? And if there’s an area in your personal life that needs a fine tuned psak, you’re welcome to ask it. |
As I'm not speaking about any individual, it is not LH discuss an overall concept around this. I understand this conversation is not in your comfort zone, but that doesn't make it inappropriate. It's ok to respectfully voice your concerns around this topic.
The Rabbonim are not God, nor are they malachim. I find it more concerning to pretend that they can do no wrong, than to respectfully disagree with them. If so many in their communities are resorting to underhand tactics, secretive behavior, or upfront lying to go about their normal lives, then it rather suggests that the psak given around this is lacking. It suggests lack of deeper understanding how the current generation is dependent on this very tool for normal routine operations.
A decision made without a full understanding, be it a snap decision or thought-out one, will lack critical context. One critical detail, even a small one, can upend an entire thought process.
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amother
Amaryllis
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Sun, Nov 20 2022, 12:50 pm
| amother Molasses wrote: | I don't have a filter. I have never searched for anything I would be ashamed of.
I also have my phone with me at all times and even if not, it's locked.... my kids don't have access. |
You never mistype a website address, or use .com instead of .org or .gov?
You never accidentally click on an ad?
You never open a Google result that is misleading?
You never search for an innocuous image and are presented with not such innocuous results?
I don’t get blocked by my filter often, but those times I do I’m glad I have it.
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socialbutterfly
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Sun, Nov 20 2022, 12:55 pm
| amother Bluebonnet wrote: | As I'm not speaking about any individual, it is not LH discuss an overall concept around this. I understand this conversation is not in your comfort zone, but that doesn't make it inappropriate. It's ok to respectfully voice your concerns around this topic.
The Rabbonim are not God, nor are they malachim. I find it more concerning to pretend that they can do no wrong, than to respectfully disagree with them. If so many in their communities are resorting to underhand tactics, secretive behavior, or upfront lying to go about their normal lives, then it rather suggests that the psak given around this is lacking. It suggests lack of deeper understanding how the current generation is dependent on this very tool for normal routine operations.
A decision made without a full understanding, be it a snap decision or thought-out one, will lack critical context. One critical detail, even a small one, can upend an entire thought process. |
So many questions…
What makes you think having a filter stops the everyday uses of technology/internet?
Filtered internet usually means access to anything within appropriate bounds. Imagine having all the benefits of internet without any downsides.
It sounds like you’re referring to other things in terms of rabbanim, secretive bhavior, tactics etc. Not sure it’s place in this conversation. Perhaps elaborate on what you’re talking about? Nobody is perfect, but to have such little faith in the gedolim is quite sad.
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basyisrael18
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Sun, Nov 20 2022, 1:06 pm
| amother OP wrote: | | I get that there are unsavory websites out there. But why is everyone under the assumption that without a filter they will become addicted to [filth]? Why do men especially feel they are so weak they can’t be trusted unless they have a filter? Why not just have parental controls to restrict certain levels of access and then just don’t access smut? Guess what. I don’t have a filter and I don’t have [filth] pop up on my devices. If a website pops up it’s because I wasn’t careful but then I figured it out and learned the signs of what not to do. so I don’t click on suspicious text messages or emails or pop ups or click bait. The taboo of having a smart phone without a filter seems to make the allure of [filth] stronger for those that are susceptible and for those that aren’t, it’s like a virtue signal of holiness. Just the whole level of censorship in some circles seems counterproductive on multiple levels. |
Maybe sit down with your husband and clarify what your goals are with regards to technology. Do you want to be a slave to your phone or internet? If no, what does it take to make sure you won't be? I think the answer is different for every person and needs to be reevaluated every few months.
For some people, this can only be accomplished with filters. For some, they need to go even further and have a flip phone.
Personally, I don't want to be a slave to my phone. I'm less concerned with "filth" because not being a slave to my phone will also stop me from mindlessly scrolling on my devices and looking at filth. I think that's a good way to look at technology (for adults).
For me, not being a slave to my phone means that I have Internet blocked on my phone. It means that I have WebChaver monitoring service on my computer so my husband knows every single site I've been on. I don't have a filter, but I do have a "chaver" watching what I do on the Internet, reminding me not to waste too much of my time. If I feel that I'm spending too much time on the Internet or wasting my time with certain apps on my phone, I would discuss it with my husband and maybe take steps to further curb what I have access to or put time limits on my phone apps.
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amother
Bluebonnet
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Sun, Nov 20 2022, 1:13 pm
| amother Amaryllis wrote: | You never mistype a website address, or use .com instead of .org or .gov?
You never accidentally click on an ad?
You never open a Google result that is misleading?
You never search for an innocuous image and are presented with not such innocuous results?
I don’t get blocked by my filter often, but those times I do I’m glad I have it. |
These are sensational lines suggested by people who don't know how the internet works.
In 99.9999% of the cases mistyping an address doesnt lead to anything inappropriate. In large part, large companies and organizations purchase domains for all extensions, plus the common mistypes. They do this to avoid anyone capitalizing on their business names. Secondly, most wholesome sites will stay away from any sort of domain name that can be misconstrued or mistyped in this fashion. Thirdly, the sites that you frequent are cached by your browser. So if you enter it right the first time around, it will autofill it from there on. Can it happen, sure. Just like you can mistakenly dial a s-x hotline on your landline phone
As for ads - the ads that appear on your screen is based on the browsers search history. If you don't search for inappropriate stuff, you don't need to worry about ads.
If you search for innocuous terms, I dont see how google can mislead you to anything inappropriate. If you're googling for something that can possibly be misconstrued, just be very specific with your search terms. Problem avoided.
I have been on the internet for many years now, I have yet to come across any situation that you presented. If anything, your post serves as a reason why we need to educate people how to use the internet, and not so much why a filter or ban is needed.
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amother
Electricblue
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Sun, Nov 20 2022, 1:18 pm
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amother
Bluebonnet
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Sun, Nov 20 2022, 1:20 pm
| amother Electricblue wrote: | https://www.imamother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=490887
Replies such as the ones in this thread are reason enough to get a filter. |
If that's your need, by all means get a filter.
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Hashem_Yaazor
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Sun, Nov 20 2022, 1:37 pm
I know of a website of a frum organization that was not renewed (they changed their domain name and let the old one lapse) that was bought by some foreign entities who decided to use it for pretty explicit matter.
I stumbled upon it by typing in the old url.
It's extremely naive to think that no one will ever stumble upon filth.
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amother
Molasses
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Sun, Nov 20 2022, 1:38 pm
| amother Electricblue wrote: | https://www.imamother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=490887
Replies such as the ones in this thread are reason enough to get a filter. |
I'm lost. Why?
ETA: I did block the intimacy forum only because I wasn't interested in reading about these topics as I'm going through my day... I'm sure this topic is important for those who need the knowledge/conversation.
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PinkFridge
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Sun, Nov 20 2022, 1:55 pm
| amother Electricblue wrote: | https://www.imamother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=490887
Replies such as the ones in this thread are reason enough to get a filter. |
I have a filter (that let me see it because I unblocked Imamother). But even without a filter, one can choose to block this forum.
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