S/O toddler in high end restaurant, the horror! Poll

lamplighter

Fri, Nov 25 2022, 12:01 pm

A toddler isn't at a high end restaurant for their own enjoyment. They are there because it's easier on their parents. There is zero need for a toddler to "be a person too" at such an establishment. Let's just be honest about that.
Every adult in the high end establishment is there for themselves, they are paying for the food and the experience that is appropriate to them.
Do I think toddler belong in such restaurants? No. Do I think parents are wrong for bringing a well behaved child also no. But in all high end restaurant cases the "rights" of the adults take precedence over the toddlers ie if the kid is making noise or pacing between tables, that is disturbing the experience of the adults, even though that is age appropriate, it is not location appropriate and the toddler should be taken outside.

amother

Lemonchiffon

Fri, Nov 25 2022, 12:23 pm

lamplighter wrote:

If it's not appropriate for a child to make noise, it's not appropriate for an adult to make noise either. Have you been to Tabernacle? Or the Salt? Those are very high end restaurants. The noise level there can be deafening. The noise from adults. People partying as if they're at home. I think this is more rude than the mere sight of a toddler and more rude than a toddler making some noise. We shouldn't be more intolerant to kids than to adults. As long as there are no specific rules, everyone is entitled to be there. And if the staff has issue with it, they can take care of it. But this attitude of "I don't want to see YOUR child because "I" want to have a nice night out and the mere site of your child wilo ruin MY night", is entitled and horrible.

amother

Pumpkin

Fri, Nov 25 2022, 12:43 pm

I've been thinking about the idea of kids in adult spaces/at adult times lately. When I go to the supermarket late at night and I see one parent with a young child I feel bad for the child who has to be up so late and I understand that the parent might be a single parent and has no choice to shlep them along at an hour that they're able to go. That seems like a necessary trip. Family restaurants are for everyone. For nice restaurants, I think if you want to expose your children to nice places and teach them manners, take them in the afternoon for early bird or for lunch. It would bother me if dh and I went through the trouble of getting a babysitter at night to take time away from our kids and someone else's kids were running around or making noise. If they're silent I don't have a problem. But if it's late at night I'd definitely give the sideye. Those poor kids! They don't need to be there. It's not for them, it's for their parents.

amother

Lemonchiffon

Fri, Nov 25 2022, 12:47 pm

amother Pumpkin wrote:

Why poor kid? Maybe they had a nap and are well rested? You're being quite judgmental. And when people bring children, it's usually early evening, not late at night.

lamplighter

Fri, Nov 25 2022, 1:06 pm

amother Lemonchiffon wrote:

In the other thread I clearly stated that I don't discriminate by age. Loud or inappropriate behavior by anyone in a high end establishment is wrong.
The point I'm making here is that the restaurant is for the adults, it is an appropriate environment for them, it is an enjoyable experience etc. A toddler is going because it's easier on the parents not bc this is an experience geared to them (some may say not even appropriate for them). If a toddler interferes with the adults experiences the parent should take them out. Unfortunately with adults it's not as simple, they paid for their meal, they obviously belong there and it would be on the restaurant staff to choose to take them out or not. I do wish that was the case. I go out very rarely and it's so upsetting when we go to a high end place and the table next to us (or across the room) is rowdy.

imorethanamother

Fri, Nov 25 2022, 1:20 pm

Here’s the problem that I experienced. Most of the time, having small children in restaurants is fine. I don’t really care. But when a child starts screaming and crying, because the food was expensive and they didn’t finish, because they had so much more invested in this night out, people do NOT take their children out. They cajole. They plead. They bribe. And meanwhile everyone else is paying a lot of money and not enjoying their own experience.

Can adults be loud? Sure. But children’s crying and screaming is designed by God to be discomfiting and so it ruins your experience.

And for the record, we don’t go to restaurants. Like ever. Maybe once a year. So when we do, it can be difficult when someone else felt that their needs trumped everyone else’s.

amother

Daisy

Fri, Nov 25 2022, 1:24 pm

imorethanamother wrote:

This has been my experience too. I have almost never seen a parent take a child out. They bribe, they beg, they whisper loud etc. It would be a while different story if a child started crying or kvetching and the parent whisked them up and out.

amother

Pumpkin

Fri, Nov 25 2022, 1:37 pm

amother Lemonchiffon wrote:

Why poor kid? Maybe they had a nap and are well rested? You're being quite judgmental. And when people bring children, it's usually early evening, not late at night.

Because usually if they're cranky/misbehaving they're not well rested. If they're not bothering anyone I don't have a problem. I'm not talking about an 8 year old, I'm talking about a toddler.

amother

Jade

Fri, Nov 25 2022, 1:48 pm

amother Bluebonnet wrote:

You wouldn’t be offended if someone says how nice it is to have the whole family together while your own children weren’t invited?

So.... your issue isn't that your kids missed out on going to the fancy restaurant but that your grandmother considered those gathered to be "the whole family"?

Fox

Fri, Nov 25 2022, 2:11 pm

Of the many bees I have in my bonnet, this is a big one.

Dining out, whether it's a casual pizza shop or an upscale restaurant, is a privilege, not a right. It's an experience that comes with its own set of etiquette, expectations, and requirements.

If a child is too young, too cranky, or too active, it's not fair to anyone to take them to restaurants. Yes, there are exceptions, and, yes, more casual establishments are a better choice when you're traveling with small children. But it is often very, very easy to tell which families have taught their children the rules for dining out and which families haven't.

I'm thrilled when I see children who have obviously been schooled in how to handle themselves in a restaurant. They're a pleasure to be around. When kids treat the restaurant like a playground, it doesn't matter to me how casual the establishment supposedly is.

So while I'm not bothered by the occasional squeal or breach in decorum from an otherwise well-prepared and well-behaved child, I definitely judge people who seem to think that "family-friendly" is a euphemism for "anything goes."

As an aside, I have the suspicion that the kids who've never been taught how to handle themselves in restaurants grow up to be the adults who are too loud or obnoxious themselves.

amother

Bluebonnet

Sat, Nov 26 2022, 7:40 pm

amother Jade wrote:

So.... your issue isn't that your kids missed out on going to the fancy restaurant but that your grandmother considered those gathered to be "the whole family"?

My issue is more that nice family get together equals nice restaurant but nice restaurant doesnt mean whole family get together but the “seen and not heard” generation doesn’t feel like kids should be included as part of “the whole family”

amother

Narcissus

Sat, Nov 26 2022, 10:31 pm

I would never bring a toddler to a high end restaurant because I find it inappropriate. I do not appreciate spending 200-300 and having a toddler in the background kvetsching or crying.

My last night out, there was a couple with 2 kids-a toddler and baby. The baby started crying 2 minutes after they walked in, and the toddler threw a full blown temper tantrum because the he didn't want to sit. After listening to that for 10 minutes, I left. I did not appreciate my night out being disrupted by what I consider inconsiderate parents.

Do I think parents cant go out to eat, no? But I do think that there is a time & place. You can go to family friendly restaurants. Ppl that go there, don't mind so much the kids noise. It's expected. High end restaurants? Kids are not as expected, so it disturbs ppl wanting an adult night out. There is nothing wrong with adults wanting to be kids free for a couple of hours.

amother

Dahlia

Sat, Nov 26 2022, 10:39 pm

amother Bluebonnet wrote:

My grandfather took the family out to a high end restaurant in Manhattan for his birthday and my kids were not invited. There was a 2/3 year old who kept wandering around (quietly) and every time he passed us, my grandmother turned to me and said “this is why they weren’t invited” but then went on to talk about how nice it was for the whole family to be together. I’m still offended

Sorry but it seems your Grandparents didn't have patience for the little ones that day. It was your Grandfathers special day and if he paid for it, it's his choice. They probably wanted you also to enjoy the meal and have a normal conversation without worrying about the little's. I'm sure they love your children when you come visit.

amother

Brickred

Sat, Nov 26 2022, 10:44 pm

I have 7 kids, the youngest of whom is 4. Occasionally we go out as a family. This is not because I can’t get a babysitter, but because we want to spend time together. We like steak. My kids all know how to behave. The do not yell, wander around, bother anyone, or even require iPads for bribery. We usually go earlier, so it’s less crowded and because I don’t love eating at 8 pm. Sometimes I go with my husband by ourselves. It’s all whatever we prefer at that time. All this intolerance is unsettling. My kids are quiet and my money is as green as yours. Live and let live.

amother

Lemonchiffon

Sat, Nov 26 2022, 11:22 pm

amother Narcissus wrote:

In this situation, if kids are being disruptive and the parents are not doing anything, you tell the restaurant staff to please take care of it. But just the site of a (quiet, well behaved) child, shouldn't ruin anyone's night out. Being kids free for the night, means being free of your own kids. You can't control what other's do and it's not anyone's responsibility to ensure that there's no kid in site on your night out.

amother

Narcissus

Sun, Nov 27 2022, 2:29 am

when I look for a kids free night, it means I don't want any kids, not mine and definitely not someone else's.

Kids are unpredictable. The baby who never ever cries, may cry because he's in an unfamiliar place. The usually well behaved toddler, may look at a restaurant as a huge playground. There are a lot of things that can set a kid off.
I'm not saying not to go out with kids. Im saying take them to a family friendly restaurant. Let kids be kids.

amother

Brickred

Sun, Nov 27 2022, 8:08 am

amother Narcissus wrote:

But I don’t want to. I want to go to the restaurant that I am at. If I was not permitted to, I’m sure the staff would turn me away at the door. The thing is that you don’t get to tell me where to bring my kids. That would be the job of the restaurant. Who seemingly didn’t not have an issue with us or seating us. They didn’t say anything and they didn’t even have a funny expression on their face when doing so.

amother

Olive

Sun, Nov 27 2022, 8:22 am

I was on the way home from Israel, I was repulsed by a
barefooted three year with a dress that was as short as can be.

she "sat" right next to me, all over the place, climibing and walking the aisles
I felt repulsed and it was difficult to relax the entire trip...

Moms, could you keep your kids dressed if they are so up close to other people??

amother

Mocha

Sun, Nov 27 2022, 8:46 am

amother Narcissus wrote:

It isn't your call where I bring my kids. You want a kid free night guaranteed, send your kids out or go to a bar. Food is for everyone, and I want to bring my kids with me when I go out to eat.
I do take care of them, if they're upset I take them out. But to say they have no place in a nice restaurant is ridiculous.

amother

Mocha

Sun, Nov 27 2022, 8:46 am

amother Olive wrote:

This belongs in a spin-off, if you're referring to being on a plane.