How do people do it? (Buying house in NJ)

amother

Mon, Dec 05 2022, 11:05 am

amother Brown wrote:

I feel like the whole tone of these sort of threads, “what am I doing wrong?” How are they all living it up? etc. are really unhealthy discussions and can only lead to resentment and feelings of inadequacy at one’s situation, spouse, parents etc. I wish they would not keep recurring on imamother.

Does it help anyone to hear “I’m a SAHM with a 10 bedroom 7000 sq ft home and my parents bought it with pocket change. My husband does hard money lending with his dads spare cash, and fips homes in his spare time and we don’t even know what to do with all of the income BH BH! We have two guest suites, and my cleaning lady and driver each have their own wing with a walk in closet. It’s such a Bracha.”?

No, it helps NO ONE. We feel resentment toward our spouse for not flipping homes and doing hard money lending so we are stuck in a 2800 sq ft attached townhouse. We feel resentment at our parents for not giving us, or not being successful enough to give us a credit card to swipe and a down payment for a mansion. We feel resentment toward Hashem for our life situation. We look with the opposite of an ayin tova at our neighbors and imagine them as spoiled rich kids or engaged in nefarious businesses or irresponsible debt to support their lifestyle.

Most of all we miss out focusing on all of the tremendous Bracha we have in our own lives because we are so busy focusing on everyone else.

The most simple of us lives better than the richest kings of just a few hundred years ago. They wore heavy robes because the heat in the castle wasn’t as adequate as our homes. It took them days in uncomfortable coaches and bone jarring roads to get to places that take us an hour in the comfort of our car. Need I mention refrigeration. A/C, and indoor plumbing?

Most people alternated between subsistence and starvation. It wasn’t expected that their children would survive to adulthood. The average child didn’t have the luxury of schooling and most adults we’re illiterate, and didn’t have time to read a magazine anyway. They worked to the bone from dawn to last light.

OP, you said it best yourself:

“we made alot of money on the sale of our first house, and were able to use it on a down payment on this house, which we BH are very happy in for so many reasons”

FULL STOP.

We have so much Bracha in our lives. Craning our necks to look at everyone else is just not letting us see it. Let us stop with “what is everyone elses secret that I am not in on” threads and enjoy that which Hashem has given each of us.

I’m the OP and I think you took my original post as me being jealous or unhappy with my lot. I am BH so so grateful for my beautiful home and wonderful family. One of the biggest challenges in my life is that I work full time and don’t feel present enough for my kids. I actually love my job, but hate leaving my kids with a babysitter when they’re babies , feeling like I need to be on my computer at night etc. I was genuinely curious if I was missing something.
To all of those who say that all of these woman who don’t work have rich parents supporting them, I can see that being the answer in most cases, but all?
There are hundreds if not thousands of very young frum families straight out of kollel who are living in very large homes that need lots of upkeep and cost a lot to hear, cool, maintain etc (I would know), and I can’t imagine every single one of these couples have a wealthy parent that are footing the bill every single month of each of these expenses , month after month, with no end in sight. I truly am curious how it’s done !

amother

Freesia

Mon, Dec 05 2022, 11:21 am

amother OP wrote:

No there are not hundreds or thousands of young men 'flipping houses' or 'buying nursing homes' and just striking it really rich not just making 40 grand (if even that). As someone who knows people who worked for years and tried to get investors even with having an amazing reputation in their industry, it is not easy to get someone to invest money in you and even give you 15%. When someone is putting down all the money you are lucky if they give you 5%.

So either they are in debt or their parents are. Or they are on food stamps and Medicaid and used all of the money that Uncle Sam handed out over the past 3 years plus tax refunds to help with a down payment and bought when mortgage rates were at 2.5%.
You will see this trend slowing down now with mortgage rates over 6%.

amother

Mimosa

Mon, Dec 05 2022, 1:09 pm

amother OP wrote:

OP, do you mind if I ask what is your and your husband’s combined income? That may help shed some light on why it took you longer to buy an “expensive house”. There are industries/degrees, not necessarily “dirty” ones, that young people can go into straight after kollel, that can result in them earning very nicely 3-5 years later. At that point their families/expenses are still small and they can have a lot of disposable income to purchase a house with.

Edit: if you also share how much you paid for your house, in addition to your income, I may be able to explain how a seemingly “young and inexperienced” family can afford the same.

amother

Amethyst

Mon, Dec 05 2022, 1:34 pm

amother Mimosa wrote:

can you elaborate on the industries?

amother

Mimosa

Mon, Dec 05 2022, 1:43 pm

amother Amethyst wrote:

can you elaborate on the industries?

To give just one example, my husband left kollel and went to law school. 3 years later he graduated with a starting salary of $200k. 2 years later he’s now making $260k, with large raises/bonuses expected every year. This is the standard for people who accept “Big Law” jobs out of law school, which is becoming an increasingly more popular path for yeshiva/kollel guys, since most law schools accept BTLs. I work very part time, which makes our combined income around $300k. Meanwhile, we only live on approx. $75k/year. If I worked full time (which I don’t anymore) my earning potential with my degree would be about $130k. So combined, we would have an income around $400k. So it’s not far fetched to see how our young family with two kids could afford a house for up to a million dollars, especially considering we have a saved up a very large down payment because our expenses are low.

But that’s just one example. There can be similar
trajectories for people working in real estate, nursing homes, etc, or anyone who starts their own business in virtually any area.

Edit: The “big law” jobs now have a starting salary+bonus around $230k

amother

Mimosa

Mon, Dec 05 2022, 1:50 pm

mha3484 wrote:

Doesnt law school leave you with some major debt to pay off?

In my case, my husband chose a lower ranked school where he was offered a full scholarship, so no. But also, it’s possible for 1 spouse to work throughout school to cover living expenses plus some of the costs, so your debt is lower. Also, most decent law schools give you access to interviews for summer jobs at big law firms that pay approx. $40k for 10 weeks, which definitely helps offset expenses when you are a student.

Yes, you have to be smart and a hard worker. But many in our community are, and I personally know many dozens of young families doing this.

Edit: to be completely transparent, over the 3 years my husband was in law school we recieved approx. $15k/year support from our parents. So I cannot say we did this alone. However, we now have about $300k in savings, so even without this support we would still have about $250k savings.

amother

Mon, Dec 05 2022, 1:50 pm

amother Freesia wrote:

I never said there are hundreds thousands "flipping houses" and "buying nursing homes". I actually never used either of these terms, those were other commenters, and it happens to be true that there are lots of young people in these types of businesses doing very very well. What I did say, was in resopnse to most answers that people are living these lifestyles on their parents dimes, was that there are hundreds or possibly thousands at this point of very young families who live in very expensive houses (for example in toms river, areas of jackson etc, and many other areas in the country, not just the tristate area) and my comment was that I cant imagine ALL of these people are being supported or gifted these homes and lifestyles by their parents. Some, yes. Most, possibly. All, I dont think so.
I am not looking at others in a jealous way, its wonderment, like HOW? If there are answers other than parents supporting, or dirty business practices, I would love to know so I can avail myself to the luxury of being a stay at home mom.

amother

Mimosa

Mon, Dec 05 2022, 1:54 pm

amother OP wrote:

If these young families truly aren’t being supported, and they aren’t in major debt, then the obvious answer is that they found a way to earn enough money quicker than you did. The real question I think you’re asking is, not how THEY are able to do it, because that only has one real answer. The real question you’re asking is, how were you NOT able to do it? So again OP, it would be much easier to answer your question of “HOW?” if we knew your annual income and how much you paid for your house.

amother

Freesia

Mon, Dec 05 2022, 1:59 pm

amother OP wrote:

I wasn't responding to you, lol, but other posters. I'm sorry if you were offended. I know you didn't say that.

There's no secret that you are missing.
If they themselves don't have the money,
either they are in debt or have help from relatives or Uncle Sam.

amother

Mon, Dec 05 2022, 2:00 pm

amother Mimosa wrote:

Without giving too much away, my husband started and the bottom and is now in upper management for a large company, and I work for a nursing home, similar to a biller but in a larger capacity and been here for almost 20 years. Together we make about 300k but after taxes and deductions for all of our insurances we take home only about 220 total though. Maybe less.

amother

Mimosa

Mon, Dec 05 2022, 2:09 pm

amother OP wrote:

You didn’t make it clear how many years ago your income started to be in the $300k range, but I assume it took quite a while, since you say you were in your starter home for 20 years.

So the answer to your question of “How?” Is that the couples you see (if their homes weren’t bought for them, which many were) simply found a faster way to get to a $300k income than you did. There’s really nothing confusing about this. You say you work full time, I assume your husband does as well. So let’s assume you and your husband each make $150k. Please recognize there are full time jobs that pay more than $150k, you just don’t have one. You have a very respectable salary but there are still higher ones.

Now, if you want to ask, how do young families reach a high income quickly, that’s a separate topic. A combination of brains, schooling, ambition, entrepreneurship, siyata dishmaya, risk-taking. Take your pick. But BH there’s no shortage of young families in this position.

amother

Brown

Mon, Dec 05 2022, 2:11 pm

amother OP wrote:

If that is truly your question I would suggest that rather than ask an anonymous crowd on imamother that has no idea of yours or your husbands talents, strengths, education, or degree for career tips, you consult a coach or career counselor who can guide you in maximizing you and your husbands earning potential.

It’s a lot more complex than “three ladies at my kids school bus stop are SAHMs, tell me what they do so I can replicate it.” People have different talents, social circles, appetites for risk, comfort levels with certain industries, drive and yes, even Mazel. That’s how Hashem made us. Focus on your strengths and look for opportunities that come your way.

If I recall correctly one of the largest companies in Lakewood was started decades ago by a regular yungerman who rolled up his sleeves to help BMG do the title work to buy a building and realized that he could make a business out of it.

People have fought with health insurance company bills, or negotiated their own credit card bills and found themselves with a great parnassa idea they were able to scale.

Many others have solved their own issues and realized that they had a marketable skill that led them to launch successful companies.

By all means use others for inspiration but don’t assume there is a magical wand that will conjure up a 5000 sq ft home with a SAHM lifestyle. Hatzlacha

mha3484

Mon, Dec 05 2022, 2:15 pm

amother Mimosa wrote:

I know a lot of lawyers its probably locational and cultural but of the people in my area building huge houses its rarely that type. Its mostly people who are related to nursing homes somehow. The lawyers I know, many of their wives still work to some degree and I am close to 40. They live very nicely but not super rich either. Most of them are paying their loans back plus their kids tuition and their mortgage all at the same time. The 5000 sq ft houses in my area are a whole different crowd.

amother

Mimosa

Mon, Dec 05 2022, 2:23 pm

mha3484 wrote:

Yes, I do agree with you to an extent. The law crowd is a different crowd than the nursing home type crowd building 5,000 sq foot houses. But also realize that we are talking about families 10-15 years younger than yours. Times have changed, law salaries are higher. But still, the answer to OP’s question is still simple. Whether through nursing homes, real estate, law, or another industry, a young family had the brains and mazel to make money quickly. It happens all the time BH. It’s not rocket science, the pathway to being a nursing home administrator is pretty straightforward. Realize that in the frum community we help each other, give each other connections. It’s easier than in an unconnected community.

That’s not to say that everyone can do it. The fact is that Hashem gives people different IQs, different personalities, different circumstances. We are not all equal.

amother

Freesia

Mon, Dec 05 2022, 2:30 pm

amother Mimosa wrote:

Starting salary nowadays is more than double what it was 10 years ago.
Ppl also leave kollel younger than 15 years ago (perhaps due to seeing the struggle of the older generation), so they are starting with higher salaries at younger ages with less expenses. This translates to more savings & bigger purchases.