Can’t get dh to stop day trading and get a job

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Forum -> Household Management -> Finances

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amother

Fri, Dec 23 2022, 8:38 am

Anyone seen long term success day trading? So far he’s earned a massive amount of money. We used some of it and he lost the rest.

I want to know if this is a viable way to earn a living. Not that he’ll listen to me if I tell him to stop and get a job, I’ve tried that so many times…

It’s a very high stress way to earn money. And I know that 95% of day traders end up losing their money so it is like gambling.

He thinks if he comes up with a good strategy then he’ll do well. I just want a consistent income.

amother

Viola

Fri, Dec 23 2022, 8:38 am

No no no no no!!! My husband lost literally hundreds of thousands of dollars day trading. Do not do it!!!

amother

Steelblue

Fri, Dec 23 2022, 8:41 am

It’s not a guaranteed income. At best it’s a side hustle. At worst, it’s an expensive hobby. The best way to do it is to treat it as a hobby with a set amount of money for it. If you lose it all, it’s over for a bit. If you make some, you can either keep playing or use it for something else fun.

amother

Dill

Fri, Dec 23 2022, 8:45 am

Individuals don't outperform the market. If you can't convince him, let him invest $x, and put exactly the same amount in an index fund. See which account has more in a year.

amother

Fri, Dec 23 2022, 8:51 am

It’s impossible to get through to him. He says he’s smarter than everyone else so he will succeed. And I am not supporting him now so he will be angry at me when he succeeds.

I don’t know what to do. This is ruining our marriage. We can’t pay our bills and it is so hard. He refuses to get a job. He says people end up not being able to afford a frum lifestyle with a job. But we’re not affording life now either! He says, give it time.

I feel like im not good at being a wife. I should figure out a job he can do instead and maybe he’d do it then. I don’t know what he can do. I don’t know how to make him stop trading.

It’s so hard to parent our kids when this stress if weighing me down.

And maybe he will succeed, I don’t know.

amother

Fern

Fri, Dec 23 2022, 9:09 am

It is exactly like gambling. You win, and then you lose more. It’s not your responsibility to find him work. How long has he been doing this? I think after some time he might realize it’s not getting him anywhere.

amother

DarkPurple

Fri, Dec 23 2022, 9:19 am

You're not alone. My husband used that exact line "can't afford a frum lifestyle on a job" so tried all these things - day trading, real estate, youtube - I told him I would rather he stay home and just help out with the house than do these risky things. And that's what he does basically. He has a very small job and does house work. Is this the life I dreamed of. No. I would do anything to have a normal husband who can work a normal accounting, business, office type job with set hours. But this is my life.

amother

Pansy

Fri, Dec 23 2022, 9:20 am

Do you work? If so you should put your money into your own account. You should not allow his bad decisions to affect your credit card and your bank accounts.

amother

Canary

Fri, Dec 23 2022, 9:23 am

amother Fern wrote:

This!
He needs to speak to a professional financial counselor and an addiction therapist. He needs a day job and then maybe you can come to an agreement how much he can trade a day or week. This is a bad addiction under the guise of a job.

amother

Steelblue

Fri, Dec 23 2022, 9:32 am

It is not your job to find him a job.

Do you work also? Are you able to open a separate bank account so your income can go towards the basics?

amother

Oxfordblue

Fri, Dec 23 2022, 9:40 am

There are two issues.

First to answer your question - day trading is exactly like gambling and feeds the same kind of thrill satiation as gambling. Just like gambling you "win" enough so that the addict keeps coming back for the thrill and because they think they will hit it big the next time.

When did your husband "make" all of that money? Was it during the bull market when everyone made money unless they made extraordinarily stupid decisions.

Second issue is that you need to protect your family economically so you need to take all necessary steps to protect whatever money you earn and prevent your husband from gambling it away

Since he doesn't think he has any issues I don't think you can realistically do anything to change his behavior because like any addiction - drugs, alcohol, food - the addict must be the person to want to change.

amother

Aubergine

Fri, Dec 23 2022, 9:47 am

Another wife of a day trader who isn't making money here. We are literally living off tzedaka money because he's not making any money and if he does he immediately loses it all.

We've gone to rabbonim and to marriage counseling, nobody can convince him to get a job. He's also convinced that he's smarter than everyone else and he's going to make it big one day.

Op, this is not your fault. You are not a bad wife. You're the victim in this situation. He's not necessarily a bad person, but this is an addiction and these men lose their seichel. I once heard a speaker talk about how Pharoah wasn't a stupid man, but Hashem took away his seichel and that's why he kept saying no even though his country was being destroyed. That reminded me of my husband. He's a smart person who completely lost all of his seichel when it comes to day trading. He can no longer have a rational conversation about finances, because it all goes back to how rich we're going to be very soon.

I wish I had some good advice for you, unfortunately nobody I've turned to has any good advice for me.

amother

IndianRed

Fri, Dec 23 2022, 9:48 am

I actually know of a few people who made quite a parnassah day trading for many years. I have no idea what they’re doing now but it definitely worked for quite some time.

#BestBubby

Fri, Dec 23 2022, 9:50 am

Would your DH listen to his Rov or Rosh Yeshiva?

I like the posters idea to put a set amount into
Trading and an index fund.

And if in a year the index fund does better,
DH agrees to stop trading.

Also the other poster who said to protect your savings and no borrowing

amother

RosePink

Fri, Dec 23 2022, 10:17 am

Another wife of a husband who prefers ‘side hustles’ over a job because of the earning potential. I want a consistent income so I work full time. That’s our solution. He’s the parent with a flexible schedule so he covers early dismissals, doctors visits, vacation days, and I cover the health insurance and regular cash flow needs. His income covers extras.

ectomorph

Fri, Dec 23 2022, 10:28 am

The men are not wrong. It's impossible to afford a frum lifestyle on any normal salary. For many men, they're afraid to try because they think their wives/ community will only respect them less if they fail.

If they don't try, there's always the possibility that they would have been very successful if they had tried.

The truth is that we have gotten used to a lifestyle that is not necessarily sustainable as a community. Most men cannot provide for their families what their families expect as a minimal support. High paying jobs are few and far between.

This leads to exactly the situation - where men are afraid to get a regular job and work their way up. They end up doing high stakes, high reward things, because they do badly want to be respected and provide for their families. They can't emotionally handle the idea of failure and working hard and being poor

amother

Ebony

Fri, Dec 23 2022, 10:46 am

Another wife of a day trader here. My husband is in a low paying dead end job for years already, a job that has lots of down time so he can trade all day. He refuses to consider the idea that he should work his way up in a career. In his mind, this is the right hishtadlus because it theoretically *could* lead to making a lot of money, and looking for a higher paying job would get us thrown off programs.
I wish there was a way to get through to these men.

mha3484

Fri, Dec 23 2022, 11:06 am

My husband day trades to off set his other business that kind of fizzled during corona. We also are working on different income ideas. He is also the stay at home parent doing most of the child care. It works for us but I don't have high expectations just helps him feel likes he is trying to make money. Its not a full time income for us for sure.

amother

Oxfordblue

Fri, Dec 23 2022, 12:28 pm

ectomorph wrote:

This is a very strange justification for irrational behavior.

It is giving up before one even makes an effort.

The natural outcome of this is for anyone to give up - why should I try to lose weight? why should I work hard? why should I clean the house?

Your argument is essentially that since keeping up with the Goldsteins is expensive, why should I work at any job that doesn't pay $500,000 to start? So instead of actually trying to either live within one's means OR figure out a five year plan which will increase income, just give up and go to the casino.

Most high paying jobs don't pay off at the beginning either - you invest time for the education; you invest money for whatever courses/schooling you need and you start at the bottom and generally put in very long hours especially when one is starting out. You pay your dues.

amother

Chocolate

Fri, Dec 23 2022, 12:56 pm

amother OP wrote:

He’s a gambler. Get him to GA meetings.

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