Seminary, Can we afford? Rabbi Greenwald speaks.

amother

Cantaloupe

Fri, Jan 06 2023, 1:16 pm

I went to Meohr, highly respect Rabbi Greenwald. Their goal is to make you feel at home. They don’t want you to feel like you have no place to go. Their food was actually really good, and there was always something yummy for Rosh Chodesh and midterms/finals like a nice breakfast or muffins for snack etc. Awesome Eim Bayit who lives in an apt in the dorms. They really try to make a cohesive atmosphere. I remember when a big Gadol died and they managed to rent busses for us all to have transportation there and back (to the levaya) and were with us the whole time. We saw other seminary girls crammed on public transportation and trying to figure out how to get back and forth with all the chaos and craziness and they were on their own. We just felt warm and taken care of.

amother

Powderblue

Fri, Jan 06 2023, 2:37 pm

amother Cyan wrote:

A seminary owner explained to me that the charge for seminary is really quite reasonable when you consider that parents spend a lot more per month for sleepover camps and the sleepover camps don't need to pay for professional teachers or the rent/mortgage for a building in an expensive area.

Camps have plenty of expenses too. And to say because they can do it so we can also isn't a good reason. Also it's a big difference to overpay for 1 month then to overpay for 10 months...the money difference is way larger.

amother

Cyan

Fri, Jan 06 2023, 3:10 pm

amother Powderblue wrote:

ITA. I think it's just how they justify it to themselves. Also, I have gotten significant reductions from camps. Seminaries, by and large, do not offer that much of a reduction -- a $500 reduction from camp would be a $5000 reduction from seminary (since it is 10 months).

amother

Sapphire

Fri, Jan 06 2023, 3:47 pm

Many sems allow the girls to stay for Shabbos and yt but the girls don’t want to. Often they feel like a loser and they also want the fun of getting out and trying new things and meeting ppl.
I don’t think they are getting rich. If my regular tuition in ny is 12k and they aren’t feeding my kid and taking her on trips providing round the clock supervision and security etc.. I pay 5k for my sons local dorm in ny. So that alone is 17k and it doesn’t include Shabbos. They don’t have eim bayis living there caring for them and real madrichas around the clock. It doesn’t include weekly trips and monthly shabbaton and weekly melava Malka’s etc. I don’t think the profit is what ppl think.
It’s also not the norm to stay for Pesach and it is the norm for parents to visit so we have to be realistic. I don’t think a universal app would help the cost issue. It’s a drop in the bucket and they don’t want to encourage girls to apply to a million places bec that created a host of other problems. I do think a universal application system is very necessary but for a different reason.

amother

Midnight

Fri, Jan 06 2023, 3:50 pm

This is making me SO upset.

Maybe Rabbi Greenwald should speak to highschool principals and teachers.

When I was in 12th grade (not too long ago, in a monsey highschool, I wont say which but I have heard from people who went to others that they do the same) and told my teachers I didnt want to go to seminary in Israel (I knew my parents couldnt afford it, I wasnt that intersted in going for a full year anyway, I thought maybe I could go visit EY for a few months in the summer, and I was perfectly happy to stay home, get a job and work on my degree) their reaction was to be HORRIFIED. I am not exagerrating.
I was CONSTANTLY called into the principals office to talk about it with one or another of the principals, EVERY single teacher knew and made it her project to convince me otherwise, they used very frightening words about how it would affect my future, made me feel TERRIFIED about what I was doing (despite having talked it over with my family Rav).
The entire school year, from September until after pesach they would not stop.
I cried constantly that year because of the pressure they applied.
I became good friends that year with another girl in my class who wasnt going to sem either- we called each other "the non seminary support group" and literally supported each other in the face of pressure you cant even imagine.
When I think back to my 12th grade year my stomach knots up and I feel like crying, to this day. Right now, the memory of it is bringing literal tears to my eyes....Do you know how hard it is to stand up to pressure like that, from your trusted morahs and principals, every single day??

And Rabbi Greenwald is saying not everyone needs to go??? That people should evaluate if its right for them, just like they evaluate spending on summer camp and nice cars? And if its not for them, they should simply not go??? Please let the teachers and principals hear his words!!!
And then they can ask me mechila for what they put me through!!

(And PS. BH I got engaged one of the first in my class. With most of my degree completed, and a happy feeling that I did what was right for me. Wish so badly I could have told my 12th grade self not to worry)

amother

Canary

Fri, Jan 06 2023, 3:57 pm

amother Ghostwhite wrote:

There is no excuse for $30,000 tuition on American dollars but then all their teachers and staff get paid on the Israeli dollar. They pay the teachers nothing.

It’s a money maker and that’s it

And his reasons for charging $100 application fee? Cause staff has to come here to for interviews, application processing, etc. If a seminary has 60 girls, I'm sure, at least 100 will apply, times $100 fee, that's $10,000 just from fees. Is that how much is spent on one person flying here, doing a few open houses (if at all), doing interviews in a few cities, and going through applications, all in the matter of about 1.5 months?

amother

Sapphire

Fri, Jan 06 2023, 4:01 pm

amother Canary wrote:

But here’s the thing— they charge 100 so people have to think twice before applying to every single school. If the fee was lower ppl would say, I may as well.. and then schools would get tons more applicants, and then the “better girls (said with sarcasm!) will get into 5-7 schools and the less better ones will have even less chance of getting in on first round. If you’re prepared to spend 30k on seminary, the extra 300$ in application fees isn’t the issue. Yes, they make money on it. But truly would be bigger disaster if they didn’t charge.

chestnut

Fri, Jan 06 2023, 4:01 pm

amother Midnight wrote:

Poor you

it's awful.
I do wonder what the HS principal said in that podcast, didn't have time to listen to her yet

amother

Saddlebrown

Sat, Jan 07 2023, 4:46 pm

chestnut wrote:

While he's saying they're basically allowed to charge whatever they want because supply and demand, he's also saying that he isn't making a huge profit (this year he's in the red cause looks like they took in fewer girls; covid year he was in the red but tge fundraiser covered it).

I think what he is saying - that unlike other institutions - is that is not a NECASSARY - it is a luxury. Therefore it needs to be run in a for profit (albeit small profit) and should not be fundraising (unlike yeshivos, elementary school, and high schools)

Covid was different - Meor reached out to alumni, hoping that people with hakaras hartov to the school and felt like they gained would not want to see the school fall apart because of the covid crisis. I don't see this any worse then the fundraisers that went around helping other business that almost went bankrupt when covid happened, especially as the Israeli government didn't really help buisness as much as the US goverment did.

What he is ignoring is the fact the Seminary is a chinuch luxury - and many parents DO recognize how much it can be transformative for there specific child, but can not afford it. It isn't exactly like a luxury pesach program or brand name clothing or even camp.

I wish the seminaries had a scholarship program like colleges do, but instead of it being grades based it would be needs based + the student would need to prove that she was serious about her growth either by a work study option or extra chessed hours or something.

amother

Saddlebrown

Sat, Jan 07 2023, 4:57 pm

chestnut wrote:

"Because they could".
If they still have clientele at that price with less services, then why shouldn't they?

I think that there are seminaries that are run as a "buisness lishma" - they really care about chinuch and making a difference, and they want the girls to grow and have a fantastic, inspiration experience, and the are making a small, modest profit. Meor is that kind of place. In general the schools where the principal is also the owner are like that and also the less yeshvish palces are like that.

Then there are schools that are owned by business people, who hire a principal (who can be totally lishma btw) look at what Meor is charging and says - ok if I create enough of a hype around my seminary I can charge the same amount and cut my services here, here, and here and end up with more cash in my pocket.

The solution is simple - open more seminaries working on Meor's model. It will happen eventually.

shabbatiscoming

Sat, Jan 07 2023, 5:09 pm

amother Cyan wrote:

I mentioned once that I worked in a seminary and people seem to forget that there are many expenses for a full year program. camp is 2 months.
Lets say the seminary has a building, there is rent or a mortgage. Lets say for arguments sake that its around 40 k shekels a month for rent. it is for the entire building. There is also heating/cooling, electricity, water, arnona (municipal tax), gas, internet, etc. Lets say that all of those things, roughly, a month could run another 30 k shekels (remember there will be huge bills as girls will be using water, heating/cooling and those things all of the time and many girls)
And then there are trips, and events and salaries for the staff and guest lecturers and on and on it goes. Its not cheap to run a sem. Im not sure why people think it is.

amother

Sapphire

Sat, Jan 07 2023, 7:08 pm

Most sems are same idea. They are not unique. The girls still want to go out for Shabbos and most still want to come home for Pesach because it’s still nice to be with family and nice to have home cooked food and spend time with different people.
Their tuition is not substantially different. They all vary from 25-28 or so.
And they are all run by people who care, the myth of it being a get rich quick thing is just false.

amother

Dahlia

Sat, Jan 07 2023, 7:23 pm

amother Sapphire wrote:

I sent several daughters and didn't visit. And didn't bring any home for Pesach. One needed some serious alternate Pesach plans because of issues the sem was having. The plans were subsidized. (Kiruv work.)