Double take- mutually exclusive

amother

Sage

Thu, Jan 19 2023, 12:37 pm

emi1812 wrote:

That rich donor seemed really out of touch when he said, “You have to understand, I’ve given significant donations to both organizations, with the understanding that many people will get helped — not that the same people should get double the piece of the pie,” and “So donors like to give some here, some there, and know that they’re having an impact on many people, in many different ways. Why should the same family take it all?”

It’s obvious that he (and those other donors he is speaking for) don’t fully understand the actual needs of these families. They don’t seem to realize the sheer absurdity of insisting on families giving up the essential daily help they’re receiving (such as suppers and babysitters) in order to go on a once a year trip or get weekly shabbos treats 🙄

It’s not “double dipping” to get different kinds of help from various organizations. I agree, the organizations could easily vet people for a trip or ask if they are already receiving gifts/treats etc. in order to use their resources for those families who aren’t already getting the same (keyword: same) benefits elsewhere.

Overgeneralizing to mean “all or any type of benefits” on the basis of the examples they gave (most of which were not relevant) causes more harm than any perceived benefit.

It’s a false equivalency to compare someone who’s eschewing life saving medical intervention for ineffective holistic treatments or hopping from one trip to another to a family who’s asking to join a trip but is already receiving suppers/babysitting from another organization.

Perfectly said!

amother

NeonOrange

Thu, Jan 19 2023, 12:43 pm

Yeah, the organization has a point to an extent. Like if org a is able to help a family with cleaning 2 days a week and then you get org b to cover the other 2 days, so fine, I understand that's a problem and I would understand there being a policy against that. But here, there's 2 totally different things, both very much needed too! Like others said, it would be fair to deny families that recently went on a Shabbaton/retreat with some other org and ask that question as part of determining eligibility. But why should getting meals a few nights a week from an org that mainly does just that, rides to the hospital from another org that mainly handles that sort of thing etc, then mean that they can't take the main sort of help from this one? That makes no sense, it seems to be taking it too far for me.

amother

Pearl

Thu, Jan 19 2023, 12:54 pm

mha3484 wrote:

This is such a good point that I didn't even think of. Also for a lot of us who have complicated family situations and generally struggle with feeling unsupported this is like salt in the wound at a time where people should not have to experience that. I am grateful that I get a lot of help with certain things and the organizations where I live all work together and I have never gotten turned down for one group helping me.

I'll be honest, I get very triggered by these types of stories. I actually had some downtime last night and saw the article in mishpacha and skipped it. I can't read those type of things (even though I do think those organizations should exist, and I'm glad for the work they do.)

I'm married for lots of years with a husband who has been ill for most of it. No, not cancer. Mental illness.
It's the silent struggle, where no one knows what you are going thru (because of the stigma). The times you are alone. The fact that taking care of your family is on you. Even your own close family doesn't know.
But when my relative's child had cancer, not only did she get support from organizations...but there was this huge expectation on me. I got roped into making meals, babysitting, and all sorts of support, when I was actually going thru a very difficult time in my family, and felt unable to say a thing. (I once tried. Got told off by a neighbor that I don't realize that I have to step up to the plate, she sees what's going on there and I must step in and do this and this....)
but they went on trips, they were taken care of, and we were expected to pitch in to our utmost on top of that just to keep our dignity or people would say we are unsupportive. While feeling overwhelmed in my own life.
I guess it boils down to, you don't really know what's going on by someone else. Including your own SIL. Yes. The one that's super-organized and everyone thinks she manages everything. I get calls constantly by people who think I am the perfect candidate for their organization, and they can't understand why I don't join up (like Sister to Sister, etc...)

keym

Thu, Jan 19 2023, 1:25 pm

amother Chestnut wrote:

I get it in a way. The primary functions for their organizations are not the big events.
That’s a bonus.
Before every event they get an influx of requests to join, from people are not using their services.
They cannot accommodate all these requests.
They assume their number of attendees size to be approximately as large as the members they are servicing.
Joining only for the large events is taking advantage.
The large events are about creating a community between members and staff.

I object to the phraseology "taking advantage". That imo should be for people who don't actually qualify for the help but lie or stretch the truth.

The rest of it can be dealt with. Tell the mother that organization policy is that a family needs to be part of it for 2 months before participating in a "big event" because of this concern. That we'll be happy to put them down for Erev Shabbos treats, for the Big Sister/Brother program, and iyh they can join for the Pesach Trip.

That would feel ready. The mother might be upset, but ok.

Unless an organization provides everything - meals, rides, pampering, big siblings, cleaning help, babysitting, counseling, it's not fair to make a family choose which services they absolutely can't live without and choose an organization based on that.
It seems like from the story 1 org provides counseling, pampering and big sisters. 1 org provides meals and babysitting. And possibly a 3rd provides rides. And a parent is supposed to decide and choose just 1 when her whole family is collapsing because of Illness. (And I'm not even touching on insurance and financial aid and medical advocacy)

amother

Amber

Thu, Jan 19 2023, 1:32 pm

amother Chestnut wrote:

That could be true for some organizations.

That's not how it's presented for this one.

The org can certainly give precedence to those their currently serving. Here she's told they can't service her because she's getting meals and babysitting.

Love it. "Taking advantage". That's right.

That's why these articles are so dangerous. While this one was sympathetic towards the protagonist, it looked down at the family that went on multiple trips and was getting help and "swag" from multiple organizations. Now we all get to judge them.

These are kids with a sick parent for crying out loud!! Who cares if they go on two vacation weekends in a row! Their parents have likely spent multiple weekends away from them in luxuries places like MSK Manhatten/Baltimore/Boston/Minneapolis/Houston. Or maybe just in good Ole Jersey Shore.

If org needs to prioritize among too many applicants, sure, pick ones already connected/ who have done something similar recently/ who have sicker parents. Whatever the orgs focus is.. But please don't judge. And please don't leave them out just because they get help on other ways or are not listening to your medical advice.

amother

Peony

Thu, Jan 19 2023, 1:32 pm

amother Pearl wrote:

THIS 💯! I really felt everything you’re saying. My husband suffers from mental illness too and the suffering in silence gets suffocating.

Especially when there’s a flare up/crisis, it’s so tough to simply get through a routine day when things are just falling apart around you and you’re drowning…yet you have to go through the motions because if you told the truth about what’s going on, there’s a good chance your family will become socially ostracized nebachs and the talk of the town.

I was going through the motions while totally sleep deprived from trying to bring my suicidal husband who had a breakdown to safety and treatment. All while trying to comfort and support the frightened children and still tend to their regular needs, and still having to show up to work when I’m scared, anxious. sad, and so physically and emotionally exhausted and burnt out.

Support groups for people like us don’t pitch in to help us run the household or take care of the kids day to day needs or meals. Our cases don’t garner any outpouring of public sympathy and definitely no type of assistance whatsoever.

amother

Thu, Jan 19 2023, 2:06 pm

amother Amber wrote:

another point that bothered me about the “swag” projection- maybe on-top of the sick parent they also have a child with special needs or another huge challenge in the family that (unfortunately) “qualifies” them for another organizations help/“perks” just to survive...

And “lol” about the luxury weekends... for years the only “vacation” I had with my husband were those in the PICU overlooking the East river or in a bikur cholim apt in Boston or a Ronald McDonald house in Philadelphia while my kids were staying with neighbors/classmates/family friends and on rare occasion family (let’s not get into family...)

amother

Thu, Jan 19 2023, 2:13 pm

amother Pearl wrote:

this is a very true and I’m sorry for what you’re struggling with (silently). It bothers me a lot that mental health struggles end up being so isolating while only cancer and such get helped... It is also true for many other serious illness that don’t fit a certain “criteria” (like if the child doesn’t talk and the organization deems the child cognitively impaired which is not necessarily the case) and the family can just as well be struggling with life and death situations, multiple extended icu admissions and no sleep because the child is so technologically dependent and needs so much care that sleep just doesn’t happen and more... and yet there’s minimal to no support for these families in crisis...

amother

Petunia

Thu, Jan 19 2023, 3:35 pm

As others have suggested, it makes sense to have policies. When you have similar organizations aimed at the same demographic, it seems sensible to have those limitations. But make them sensible. Instead of having a blanket rule of never more than 1, make it from those that overlap and do the same thing. Why should a family not get different things from different organizations?
And donors can be really difficult to work with. They have the money and they have often quite rigid ideas of what they want to see and often don't seem to be in touch with the people that are being helped and understand what they really need. But at the same time these organizations need the funding and will often be forced to adhere to what the donor wants so they have the money for the other things as well.

DustyDiamonds

Thu, Jan 19 2023, 3:41 pm

amother Pearl wrote:

Hugs OP!!!

This is one of the side effects of mental illness. It’s generally silent and lonely and embarrassing to talk about.

I went through a season of anxiety and depression years back, and had to take a few months off work. There were no meals or babysitting or cleaning help for me, the way there would’ve been if I’d had surgery or cancer.

Because it’s generally kept quiet, I don’t know how this could be remedied.

amother

Pearl

Thu, Jan 19 2023, 3:56 pm

amother Clear wrote:

Unfortunately, the only solution is for people to speak up. It's incredibly hard and involves tremendous risk.

Speak up where? to whom?
In my town, there's one organization that helps families where a spouse (or both) have mental illness. (I've been asked to join them as a volunteer). They will come and help organize your home (I don't need that). They will assign someone in the community to talk to you on the phone or meet with you occasionally (no thanks, I have a therapist who is bound by confidentiality for that).
There's really not much help out there.
when I was young and felt so helpless, I sometimes contemplated calling Shalom Task Force. Never did. I did speak to our Rabbi who helped in some ways with support and getting us to therapy and psychiatrists (for which we paid mostly out of pocket, don't ask me how. CC debt that we paid off....)

There's no big sister programs for kids, no toy drives, no weekends (I never go away - not that I could, I would have nowhere to leave my kids. I missed family simchas weekends with vague excuses that I couldn't come to because husband wasn't doing well then....), no ch'h trips for the kids (I usually try to take them somewhere myself, not much we can afford), forget suppers when you are pushing yourself to function.

DustyDiamonds

Fri, Jan 20 2023, 1:59 am

amother Pearl wrote:

Hugs. It hurts to just read this. Can someone here who is more awake than me please start a spin-off: how can our community help families where a parent has a mental illness.