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Ugh I feel so guilty- sleep training
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amother
Jade


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 8:13 pm
amother Candycane wrote:
Don’t go on I’m another for health info.. people’s advice is terrible. Babies should be sleeping through the night from 4-5 months. You don’t have to feed your baby every time he cries.
Your baby is probably so hard because he is sleep deprived!!!!! Get him a good night sleep, he’ll be a diff baby!!


No, babies are NOT supposed to sleep through the night at 4-5 months, only if it happens on it's own. Most babies still need to eat during the night at that age. It's natural for babies to wake to eat and it doesn't cause them to be sleep deprived if they eat for a bit and fall right back asleep.
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amother
Banana


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 8:15 pm
amother Daffodil wrote:
Please I am begging someone to post a reliable source for why sleep training is so bad. "I feel like it's bad" is NOT ENOUGH reason to shame someone who is struggling. To tell another human being, at a difficult time in their life, that they should feel guilty! I hope you have a thousand doctors backing you up on that...


Some things (I would say even most things) a mom knows better than a doctor when it comes to her babies. And no mom is absolutely okay with abandoning her baby and feels nothing (unless she’s missing something crucial to her psyche).
There have been studies that abandoned babies have trust issues and when they did that study where no one paid any attention whatsoever to the babies (except basic needs like feeding, baths, changing diapers) - those babies all died from lack of physical and emotional contact. That’s extreme case of course. But that shows that even in little increments it still effects the baby. If a 3, 10, 30, 75… year old can feel abandoned. A newborn can too. 100000%. You’d be crazy to think otherwise. I sleep train my babies while I sit on the floor. They cry but I’m there ready to rub their back once they lay down. And I go sit again (sometimes begrudgingly of course cuz I also want my own time) when they wake up and cry. I hope they just fully sleep the night and if not they’ll end up in my bed

A good night sleep is definitely needed for the mother. It’s hard and not likely with a baby. But if someone can hang out with the baby (a parent or sibling or hire a babysitter for a night and tell her she won’t be sleeping). Or take turns with DH for a whole night.
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amother
Banana


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 8:19 pm
amother Candycane wrote:
Think no one is gonna have discomfort or pain in life? I mean, how cruel.. you are in your moms cozy warm body and then you are born… so open and cold..
and the bris……. I mean … you are cutting him with a cold instrument and making him bleed…


Being cold snuggled up to your mommy’s warm body and always having mommy to comfort you through all those discomforts is key!!! The baby still needs us. We help with the discomfort by comforting them with our bodies. Even my husband puts baby on his body skin to skin. Bris also. 3 minutes of discomfort. Nurse. Cuddles. And holding baby. Baby is sound asleep. Doing just fine after that.
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#BestBubby




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 8:21 pm
amother Blushpink wrote:
Bestbubby, I do like your posts often but what are you getting at here? Sending our children to daycare is the same as letting a newborn cry themselves to sleep every night?
Are you paying my bills?


It's not EVERY night crying to sleep.

It's just a FEW nights.

I bring up daycare because while it may be
"Ideal" to not sleep train,

It may be "necessary" for mothers health.

Just like daycare is not "ideal" but is "necessary"
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amother
Candycane


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 8:24 pm
amother Jade wrote:
You are being irrational. There's no use arguing with irrational.


And saying that your child’s life is gonna be messed up cuz they used forceps is not irrational?
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amother
NeonPurple


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 8:28 pm
didn't read the whole thread.

coming on here to recommend doing craniosacral therapy, for the baby and maybe for you too. birth trauma is a real thing and this therapy can go a long way with making things better for both of you now and in the future.

good luck, OP, whatever you do.
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amother
Jade


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 8:32 pm
amother Candycane wrote:
And saying that your child’s life is gonna be messed up cuz they used forceps is not irrational?


No, it is not irrational if you know anything about trauma and emotional well-being of babies. Birth trauma for babies is very real and can leave serious repercussions. If OP is still traumatized 7 months later, then baby is still traumatized as well. And adding the trauma of CIO on top of the birth trauma, is just cruel.
Leaving baby to CIO is just taking the lazy way out. There are gentle methods to help baby learn healthy sleep patterns, (Though waking up for afew moments to eat and going right back to sleep is healthy sleep patterns), as well as chiropractic treatment or cranio therapy, which can do wonders for a baby.
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amother
OP


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 8:48 pm
amother Blushpink wrote:
No its really not age appropriate.
OP, my baby didnt start sleeping through the night until she was 12 months.
Ferber rescinded many of his ideas when he published the ferber method.
CIO is dangerous and does not promote healthy bonding.

Im so sorry for the trauma you went through. I had something similar and Im still dealing with issues 2 years later. Please get yourself to pelvic PT asap as well as cranio therapy for your baby and of course a chiro. Where are you located? Maybe we can suggest someone good for you to go to

In nj. I am seeing a pelvic floor therapist, and I have made tons of improvement bH (I couldn't stand for more then 5 minutes at first). Can you suggest a chiro and a chraniac therapist for the baby pls?
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mushkamothers




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 8:48 pm
amother OP wrote:
Just curious; did u ever have such a birth? Or your comment is hypothetical?


This is what I do after all my births and no none was as bad as yours but for example my first had all the interventions and I'm convinced the only reason I didn't end up with ppd or other trauma is because I kept that baby on me for 24 hours straight. I wasn't given a proper room until then so nobody checked up on me or the baby.
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mushkamothers




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 8:56 pm
amother Candycane wrote:
If mom had a third degree tear, how is that trauma for the baby? Mom had a d&c, how is baby affected by that?


Baby is also a partner in the birth. The birth happened to the baby! They did all the work exiting the birth canal. And btw those movements that they did or didn't make, establish their brain patterns for life (which can always be remedied - basically with tons of tummy time and free movement so really limiting swings etc)

I'm a bit astounded, sleep training aside, at just a lot of misinformation here. Like it's sad that we have babies and raise babies and culturally treasure babies but people really have no idea about what and how babies development works. It's not a blame, it's an observation, this is why I started sharing this info. How can we be the best mothers we want to be if we don't even know what we're doing.

And yes there is lots of research on this.

Ppncenter.com

https://prenatal-and-perinatal.....ntent
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amother
Amethyst


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 9:00 pm
I recommend the baby whisperer boook (Tracy hoggs) it’s a sleep training method but withou the CIO part
You stay next to him the whole time
If you do it right in two weeks he is already on a routine and sleeping well
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amother
Ebony


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 9:07 pm
amother Amethyst wrote:
I recommend the baby whisperer boook (Tracy hoggs) it’s a sleep training method but withou the CIO part
You stay next to him the whole time
If you do it right in two weeks he is already on a routine and sleeping well

That book is old school as well, skip it. She pushes for a 4 hour schedule which isn’t good for babies.
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amother
Daffodil


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 9:08 pm
amother Banana wrote:
That’s sounds like 1950s ****.
No babies don’t need to be dealing with slight hunger to learn what it’s like being a healthy adult. It’s a baby. It needs EVERYTHING! That mindset is like the mindset of “spoiling” a baby. Which is not a real thing because babies again need everything. Once they get to 2.5 age and they start trying to do little things on their own we can then start setting some slight boundaries and that’s just slight.


Sorry, I phrased that poorly. To clarify, they do not need to deal with hunger, if you feed them constantly they will also be fine.

In my mind a little hunger is like a small booboo. If you let your baby play, crawl, etc., sometimes they will have small booboos. This is okay, it's in service of something greater, they are developing their mobility skills.
If what it takes to get a baby to learn to self-soothe and sleep is sometimes they wake up and are hungry for 5 minutes (AFTER A WEIGHT PEDIATRICIAN APPROVES IS SAFE), or if that's what it takes to keep mom happy, healthy, and alert during the daytime, I see that as similar.

Regardless... OP, if you, your husband, your pediatrician are all on board, that's what you need. That's more important than what I or anyone else online says.
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amother
Plum


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 9:08 pm
amother Banana wrote:
Some things (I would say even most things) a mom knows better than a doctor when it comes to her babies. And no mom is absolutely okay with abandoning her baby and feels nothing (unless she’s missing something crucial to her psyche).
There have been studies that abandoned babies have trust issues and when they did that study where no one paid any attention whatsoever to the babies (except basic needs like feeding, baths, changing diapers) - those babies all died from lack of physical and emotional contact. That’s extreme case of course. But that shows that even in little increments it still effects the baby. If a 3, 10, 30, 75… year old can feel abandoned. A newborn can too. 100000%. You’d be crazy to think otherwise. I sleep train my babies while I sit on the floor. They cry but I’m there ready to rub their back once they lay down. And I go sit again (sometimes begrudgingly of course cuz I also want my own time) when they wake up and cry. I hope they just fully sleep the night and if not they’ll end up in my bed

A good night sleep is definitely needed for the mother. It’s hard and not likely with a baby. But if someone can hang out with the baby (a parent or sibling or hire a babysitter for a night and tell her she won’t be sleeping). Or take turns with DH for a whole night.


Not getting involved in the greater discussion here. But had to jump in and say the bolded is SO SILLY. You just compared fully abandoning a child to a caring, loving mother who helps baby get to sleep by allowing them to cry periodically with mom checking in every few minutes along the way. Your disclaimer at the end about being “extreme” doesn’t help your case. Those are your feelings shining through. Not evidence based whatsoever. Please bring a source showing how babies who are sleep trained have psychological or attachment issues.

OP, unless you plan to neglect and abandon your baby completely, no smiles, no hugs, no quality time, please go ahead and do whatever it is you need to do! Clearly the only evidence people have for “negative effects of sleep training” is obscure research about children who were unloved and not emotionally cared for whatsoever. I’m sure that’s not the case by you 😉 Hatzlacha rabbah!
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amother
Ebony


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 9:12 pm
amother Daffodil wrote:
Sorry, I phrased that poorly. To clarify, they do not need to deal with hunger, if you feed them constantly they will also be fine.

In my mind a little hunger is like a small booboo. If you let your baby play, crawl, etc., sometimes they will have small booboos. This is okay, it's in service of something greater, they are developing their mobility skills.
If what it takes to get a baby to learn to self-soothe and sleep is sometimes they wake up and are hungry for 5 minutes (AFTER A WEIGHT PEDIATRICIAN APPROVES IS SAFE), or if that's what it takes to keep mom happy, healthy, and alert during the daytime, I see that as similar.

Regardless... OP, if you, your husband, your pediatrician are all on board, that's what you need. That's more important than what I or anyone else online says.

This is so incredibly misinformed it’s painful to read. Your baby learns to self sooth by you being there for them, and feeding them when hungry, not via abandonment. Your pediatrician might be pushing advice from the 50’s. Just because your baby is a certain weight doesn’t make it not neglectful to let them cry. You are excusing neglectful parenting.
There are gentle ways that can help baby sleep. CIO and Ferber are just cruel.
Ferber himself rescinded a lot of his approach so I’m not sure why anyone would that? He himself doesn’t believe in much of what he said.
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amother
Cherry


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 9:21 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
All the mothers who say sleep training us "cruel"

Do you send your babies to babysitters?


I believe traditional sleep training is cruel. And no, I don’t send my children to babysitters. They are home with me until 2-2.5 years old.

I have done gentle encouragement of healthy sleep habits, like trying to soothe baby back to sleep without lifting them out of crib if I’m 100% sure they aren’t hungry or uncomfortable, or sitting in their room as they fall asleep even if they are whimpering for me to hold them till they fall asleep, etc. I’ve even let them cry (with me in the room) on rare occasions for up to 5-10 minutes if I know they are exhausted and me holding them is just keeping them awake. But I wouldn’t consider those practices to be sleep training the way people usually mean it.
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amother
Blushpink


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 9:22 pm
amother OP wrote:
In nj. I am seeing a pelvic floor therapist, and I have made tons of improvement bH (I couldn't stand for more then 5 minutes at first). Can you suggest a chiro and a chraniac therapist for the baby pls?


Hang in there. Good for you for getting the help you need. Pelvic PT is great

I live in NY so I cant help with a chiro. But I suggest looking for a webster certified chiropractor-perhaps start a new thread. Its important your baby is also going to see a chiro for the birth trauma he went through.
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amother
Gray


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 9:22 pm
OP, I just want you to know that despite all the noise on this thread, there is a wide space between CIO and all of its affects and being exhausted and resentful. You can get better sleep for yourself and your baby without doing something that makes you feel guilty. When you're ready to hear about those options, open up a new thread, away from the chaos going on here, and we will support you through this.
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tichellady




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 10:23 pm
I think seven months is a good time to sleep train. I like the book " the happy sleeper". make sure to tell the baby what's going to happen and help prepare him. you don't have to cut out all the feedings that's up to you. you can also start by just teaching him to fall asleep on his own at bedtime and see if that skill carries on to the middle of the night
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amother
OP


 

Post Mon, Jan 23 2023, 10:30 pm
tichellady wrote:
I think seven months is a good time to sleep train. I like the book " the happy sleeper". make sure to tell the baby what's going to happen and help prepare him. you don't have to cut out all the feedings that's up to you. you can also start by just teaching him to fall asleep on his own at bedtime and see if that skill carries on to the middle of the night

Thank you. Is the happy sleeper a cio method?
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