Wig prices. SM are not money grabbing monsters!!

amother

Cappuccino

Fri, Jan 27 2023, 12:59 pm

amother Ghostwhite wrote:

Yes thank you for explaining
I thought everyone understood what she meant but I guess not

I think my original comment indicated that there are a small percentage of SAHM who are married to fabulously wealthy men who have a lifestyle which affords them significant full time household help plus unlimited budgets for cosmetic stuff and clothing.

How is this different than calling them a "specific type of crowd". They are a specific type of crowd and there aren't that many of them in terms of actual percentages.

My point is that the vast majority of SAHM are NOT this "specific type of crowd" who were essentially being described as trophy wives whose sole purpose as a wife is to be an ornament.

Most SAHM don't have the time or the budget for this. Even a relatively high salaried husband can't afford this kind of "trophy wife".

amother

Cornsilk

Fri, Jan 27 2023, 1:13 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

I'm not sure I understand your comment.
I have no idea who you're talking about.
Are you asking if they charge the customer tax? No, self employment means that they are responsible to pay their income taxes completely, no portion from the employer.
This has nothing to do with the customer.

No. When I don’t have cash and ask the Sheitelmacher if I could send them a quickpay, they always charge tax, which they don’t charge when I pay with cash.

amother

Cornsilk

Fri, Jan 27 2023, 1:14 pm

amother Ghostwhite wrote:

The dishonesty is that only newbies and inexperienced are charging the lower prices. That’s not true.

It is true. 🙄

I need a new SM every year.
At this point I do it myself more often than not.
(Even if it looks like a mop after 2 wears.)

Hashem_Yaazor

Fri, Jan 27 2023, 1:34 pm

amother Cornsilk wrote:

No. When I don’t have cash and ask the Sheitelmacher if I could send them a quickpay, they always charge tax, which they don’t charge when I pay with cash.

I have no idea then. I don't use your shaitel macher or QuickPay but I do know there are processing fees on payment platforms that sometimes is passed onto the customer and can look like a tax. For instance, I programmed a form for an organization that accepts Paypal and there's no free PayPal to organizations anymore so we added a 3% "tax" to cover the processing fees automatically (with lots of disclaimers to the customer of course). This way they are charged 103 instead of 100 if they opt to pay that way instead of a check (organisation's preferred method of payment). So it's called a tax because that's how the system is built but it's really a platform fee. No idea if it's applicable to your scenario or what's going on, just throwing out a different angle.

amother

Cornsilk

Fri, Jan 27 2023, 1:38 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

That’s not how a quickpay works.

amother

Mocha

Fri, Jan 27 2023, 1:39 pm

amother Cappuccino wrote:

I truly don't understand how you can say they don't have the "right" to charge whatever someone is willing to pay them.

Absent unusual circumstances there is a free market economy and someone can offer their services for whatever they want to charge. If people are willing to pay it, their business model works - if no one wants to pay that amount, then they will have to adjust their prices until there is a balance.

There are individuals who command a huge fee for their services. They do so because they are in such demand that they have more than enough clients. This is true in every field.

It is very bizarre to me that people feel entitled to use the services of individuals at a price they want to pay. I can get a mani/pedi at an ultra trendy salon for $150 or I can go to the local shop for $30. Should I be enraged that there are manicurists that can charge this amount because they have a client base that is willing to pay it?

These things have halachas. No you can not do whatever you want.

amother

Cappuccino

Fri, Jan 27 2023, 1:51 pm

amother Mocha wrote:

These things have halachas. No you can not do whatever you want.

Please explain in simple language why someone who is offering personal services is not allowed to set the price they feel is reasonable and which people will pay.

No one is forcing anyone to use a specific SM nor is there a monopoly so that there is only one place offering these services nor are the services a matter of life or death in any way.

Presumably someone who sets higher prices is viewed as specifically gifted, skilled or otherwise people would go to a less expensive equally qualified person 🤷‍♀️

amother

Mocha

Fri, Jan 27 2023, 2:48 pm

amother Cappuccino wrote:

Because we are jews, and we do things in the frame of halacha. To take advantage of people especially on something thats essential, and say I can charge how much I want is money grabbing. That's not how a jew should act.

amother

Cappuccino

Fri, Jan 27 2023, 2:54 pm

amother Mocha wrote:

How is it taking advantage of people and who decides what price people can charge for their services.

Is a lawyer permitted to bill $1000 per hour because they are viewed as especially skilled.

What is the specific prohibition and how is it stated. Again who determines what rate a person charges.

I don’t understand how it is taking advantage. There are plenty of other people to use who charge varying rates.

If the fee is too high no one will use this person

Again there are circumstances in which one could be gouging like a disaster or war or for certain monopolies like water. But to claim that the services of a specific SM are necessary is really laughable and entitled.

amother

Dandelion

Fri, Jan 27 2023, 2:54 pm

amother Mocha wrote:

And within halacha like someone posted above when it varies based on talent and experience the price is not the same across the board. And being that every other person is a sm you can go to someone else and therefore even more so everyone can charge what works for them. There are so many sm available you don’t have to use a specific one who charges more than you think she should.
And now on the topic halacha also discusses stealing as in forcing people to charge less than their worth which the frum world tends to do too.

amother

Denim

Fri, Jan 27 2023, 3:22 pm

amother Blonde wrote:

Did you try to learn to do your wigs? Did you take a course?
I've never washed my own wig. But I'm not complaining on the prices charged. It's my choice to get it done at that specific sheitel macher. Sheitel machers don't take advantage. You're paying them for their training, expertise, time, workers, rent....
You're paying them to do something that you don't want to learn how to do. If you think they're taking advantage, find someone else.

Ftr I did pay a shatitel Macher for a course on washing my own wig 3 hours and money wasted.

I just am not good at hair, was never able to do my own hair when single either I just have two left hands….

I’m sad about it and use a local non Jew. She’s 45$ for a w and s and that’s the most I can justify.

amother

Sand

Fri, Jan 27 2023, 3:49 pm

amother Blonde wrote:

I recently got 2 decent wigs at $1600 each. I don't think this price is so outrageous.

Where? And what wigs?

I bought a short wig (I believe it was 12” or 14”) about a year or so ago and it was close to $2000. Not in a “fancy salon”. It was not lace.

Ruchi

Sat, Jan 28 2023, 3:17 pm

amother Cappuccino wrote:

The issue is that the prices some of these sm's are charging, are very very far from being reasonable.
They think that their popularity equals elite, so that makes them feel that they are entitled to charge crazy prices to match their eliteness.

These sm's took the same courses like most others.. They did not invest over 100k for their training and expertise like a therapist does, yet they are charging therapist prices for a wash and set, when the bulk of their work is being done by their hired help.

Although anyone is free to charge as much as they like, overcharging is not יושר when the value of the work is not in line with the price being charged.

Would you pay $120 for a cleaner for 2 hours, if she's doing heavy work such as washing floors and vacuuming?

amother

Ghostwhite

Sat, Jan 28 2023, 8:59 pm

amother Dandelion wrote:

You keep,ignoring the point.
The ones who charge twice and three times what most used to charge, are responsible for so many others raising to the same high prices because they know the first one gets away with it.
That is being responsible for many frum women to be robbed.

amother

Ghostwhite

Sat, Jan 28 2023, 9:02 pm

amother Cappuccino wrote:

It’s not a matter of a client base willing to pay.
It’s that a lot of people stupidly think that more expensive means better so they think the higher priced one is so much better than one who charges less and many times it’s not true.
It’s just that the higher priced one is a rip off and the less expensive is honest and ehrlich, trying to make an honest living while not ripping off Jewish women to do it

amother

Lightyellow

Sat, Jan 28 2023, 9:05 pm

amother Dandelion wrote:

This is false. The idea of the aveirah of ona'ah is to be careful not to take advantage of others financially, and there are no exceptions to that. Maybe some things are exempt from Beis Din's ruling (and BTW it's not so clear cut that it's actually exempt) but even so the halacha is still being violated. As Jews, we're meant to be above taking advantage of our fellow Jew.
Wrong is wrong.

amother

Cappuccino

Sat, Jan 28 2023, 9:45 pm

amother Lightyellow wrote:

Perhaps I am obtuse but I don't understand how a SM is taking advantage by charging whatever rate she wants.

There are numerous options so no one is forcing a person to use a specific SM. Use a different SM.

A specific SM for whatever reason is able to command a higher price than others in the area. That is pretty common as many hair stylists, make up artists, masseuses, tutors charge different rates and people are free to use services of not.

No one is entitled to use a specific person's services at the rate they think is "fair".

If this was some kind of monopoly it might be different. If a SM is charging too much then people won't use her services.

I ask again - if some women feel that the services of a specific SM are worth the high price, why do you care since evidently there are other SM who charge less. Go to one of them.

amother

Dandelion

Sat, Jan 28 2023, 9:48 pm

amother Lightyellow wrote:

This is not what choshen mishpat says. It’s quite detailed and not a blanket black and white rule. And when it comes to services that vary by expertise everyone can charge what they feel they are worth.