"You have a lot more money than I do!"

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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Teenagers and Older children

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keym

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 9:29 am

Reality wrote:

Most people consider braces a need and parents who can't afford usually try to find low cost or a free tutor for kids who need it. I'm so sorry that your needs weren’t met!

I know many people who don't.
Braces that affect jaw structure are covered by insurance. Cosmetics braces (for a nicer, straighter smile) are not covered by insurance and can run 6-8k per child.
That is a lot of money.
I don't have any complaints that my parents couldn't afford to find that type of money.

I wish they would have told me that they couldn't get the braces BECAUSE of money.
If they would have said "money is tight, we wish we could find an extra 7k for braces but we can't" it would have made sense for me.
Saying "we have money for our needs" dismisses everything that I NEED but they aren't paying for.

amother

Lemon

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 9:30 am

As someone earlier wrote, your son's constant kvetching is a normal teen asking you to fill an emotional void he has...speak to him about love languages and ask him to identify another way you can show him love that doesn't involve material things. Set dates on the calendar with him to meet his love needs. This approach will be such a healthy way to teach him to get the love he craves in future relationships! Materialism never fill a love void for long. (To be clear, this doesn't mean you aren't extremely loving parents...it means he is going through a tumultuous time as a teen and needs more demonstrations of love to feel "full.". And this stage will pass if addressed correctly...)

amother

Marigold

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 9:34 am

amother OP wrote:

I'm reading all these responses, and I'm still not sure what to do.

He's not an anxious kid in general. I have one of those (a slightly younger teen), and I definitely would not share things with him. But this kid is almost the opposite of anxious.

For the record, my other kids do not do this and never have. Seems to be more this kid's personality. One of them is very into looking neat and put together, but will do that with his hand-me-downs or whatever. The others don't really care at all, would go to school in torn clothes or whatever and not notice or care at all (if I'd let them).

And yes, that's the way we present things to him. We're happy to pay for what he needs, but if it's not a need, he's welcome to get it himself if he'd like. He HATES that.

Also, just to put it out there...My husband is in chinuch. I work part-time and for various reasons can't work more than that at this point (although I hope to in the future). We B"H have a growing family. Part of me wants my kids to know that this really isn't workable long-term so that they have realistic expecations for the future.

But everyone always says not to share finances with your kids. Unless a kid is really anxious, I'm thinking that maybe it's better for them to know things are tight than to think that you're being cheap on their chesbon...

That's something to focus on imo. He needs to change that mindset of hating to spend his own money. That can carry over to marriage, and it can have a huge impact.

I agree with others to stand your ground, and enforce your positions versus needs and wants. Financial education is very important here too. And whenever he's of marriageable age, he will need education how to work finances together with his wife.

Reality

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 9:43 am

keym wrote:

If you are talking about medicaid, it does not only cover jaw issues but other issues as well, including certain types of bite issues. If you are talking about private insurance, many partially cover braces.

Americans do not view braces as an extra. Orthodontist's have monthly payment plans.

imaima

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 9:51 am

keym wrote:

I think cosmetic braces are still a very valid need.

Bnei Berak 10

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 11:42 am

amother Geranium wrote:

Didn’t read through everything, but teens these days just want want want. My teenage daughter has plenty of nice Shabbos clothes, but is always asking for “an amazing new skirt,” or dress or pair of shoes . Because our finances aren’t great right now, I buy for the kids what they want more than 50% of the time (within reason of what I can afford ) . But I don’t buy anything for me, and truthfully it’s depressing. I wear the same clothes all the time, and it doesn’t feel good. So I’d rather my kids feel good and have mostly what they ask for. Bh my kids are grateful when I do buy them stuff , and I just don’t want them to not have The good feeling that I have with my same old all the time.

The want want want was also in the past, at least IMHO. But the abundance is just so much more today.
Shopping today is more difficult than in the past.

Bnei Berak 10

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 11:50 am

amother OP wrote:

I absolutely think you should share with him.
The linens I would say he needs to pay all by himself. There's no reason why you should shell out money on items that you already gave in abundance.

Bnei Berak 10

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 11:58 am

keym wrote:

There wasn't money for the cosmetic braces. Or the tutor. Or the pt.
But my parents followed the philosophy of saying that there's money for our needs.
That led me to believe that MY braces weren't a need. MY tutor wasn't a need. It made me wonder if I mattered.

Braces are definitely a total need even cosmetically ones. Especially for a girl.
A former colleague of mine who grew up in Texas with a single mother (divorced) and several kids didn't have money for braces. Until today her front teeth are terribly scewed. In most European countries with social insurance and good health care this would never be the case.

Last edited by Bnei Berak 10 on Sun, Jan 29 2023, 12:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Molasses

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 12:15 pm

I have to say I agree with keym. We don't have enough money to cover all my kids wants, and not even all their need/wants. But I try as much as I can every time they ask me to buy sth for them to sit down with them, let them show me what they want, discuss why they want it and pros and cons of different types etc. And I tell them openly I'd love to buy it for you, I can see it would look nice on you / make hmwk easier for you / look pretty in your bedroom / be so fun for you to play with, etc you get the drift, but unfortunately I don't have the money right now. I used to do it the other way, saying I don't think it's necessary and I found it led to alot of resentment. I see my children, mostly teens, are much calmer when I explain to them why I can't give them.

Also I try to differentiate between things that if I don't pay for now they will lose out on forever, examples would be braces, a tutor for an important subject, camp, fun trips for their age, and things where if they don't have it now they can always get the next in thing, or the next cool pair of shoes they find, or an amazing camera next year instead of this year, and I explain that to them too.

At the same time I teach them that hashem has no limit to what he can give us, and they should keep asking. This applies to eth not just money.

keym

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 12:42 pm

amother Molasses wrote:

Exactly.
Posters are getting stuck on braces.
It's not the point.

There's a parenting philosophy that informs parents not to tell their kids that money is tight, nor to involve teens in finances. Rather tell the child "we have what we need for necessities, wants and extras we decide item by item".
Parenting experts say, using this technique prevents anxiety about money.

And I agree anxiety is a problem.

The problem is that often times, when parents use this technique, the child feels unimportant or belittled. Because they have a list of needs that are not being covered.
Some are more extra needs like participating in the grade Shabbos retreat, but some are really needs like braces, tutors, physical therapy, vision therapy, speech therapy for that lingering lisp. Many of these things are not covered by insurance.

If *I* can't cover these things (where talking thousands of dollars out of pocket a month) if I tell my child "we have enough for our needs" the child can either be hurt outward - resentment that the parents don't consider their needs important, or hurt inward- develop a belief that they are not worthy and they don't deserve to have their needs met.

For myself, I've discovered that being honest "I wish I can find the money for that expensive physical or speech therapy. You matter and if I have extra money, it will definitely go there" really helps with my relationship with my teens. They feel heard. It's not me preventing them from getting what they need. It's finances.

Lady A

Sun, Jan 29 2023, 12:54 pm

Your son needs to start learning financial responsibility.
How many women here talk about their dh who expects support long into adulthood because his parents or her parents ‘can afford it’?

It might be a good idea to have a budget for your son and teach him to stay in it. If he wants more, he needs to pay for it.

amother

Obsidian

Sat, Feb 04 2023, 8:58 pm

I don’t know. I’m pretty simple and try to raise my kids that way, but expectations have risen and there’s peer pressure for stuff that wasn’t as important when I was young. When my teenage dds wanted to update their room, even though they had perfectly good linen (they wanted a more up to date look), I gave them a dollar amount they could spend, and anything else they wanted they could cover themselves. It worked well for us. To them it was important because their friends come over and hang out in their room a lot. We shopped on amazon and tj maxx so we got good deals.

If you can’t afford it right now it’s fine to say that, but it’s also good to listen to your son about why this matters to him. Maybe you can come up with a plan to share costs if that’s doable for you.

amother

Garnet

Sat, Feb 04 2023, 11:07 pm

He sounds spoiled. Sorry, I know "everyone says not to share finances with child" but I disagree. Strongly in this case. There isn't money for that. All prices have spiked tremendously in the last year and that is very extra. Does he want it for his birthday, afikomen maybe? Or are his standards of what he expects too entitled? I think its coming across entitled.

As a child who grew up the poor kid in school, I can tell you all the harm done to the kids who knew the parents were tight grew up determined not to be poor, yes, but very driven and hard workers. Not so terrible. All the kids who knew were financially aware and responsible. Why is that bad? Appreciated things more than other kids who thought $ grows on trees. Learned to save and really enjoy when they get something.

The kids who were entitled and not based in reality learned as adults if they learned the harder way. Lots of wealthy people try still to ensure the kids don't become entitled and are based in reality, practicality & responsibility. These aren't bad things, really. Knowing what the current economy is and being wise about it and knowing that food and such comes way before nicer bed linens that are more stylish that no one even sees ( you sleep on it, clean is clean)....

amother

Mintcream

Sat, Feb 04 2023, 11:08 pm

I grew up knowing we were poor-ish and I have terrible financial anxiety now. And no tools to be able to be a high earner.

#BestBubby

Sat, Feb 04 2023, 11:27 pm

I agree that kids can be told you don't have money for extras.

You can stress that you have enough $$$ for necessities, but not for extras.

And offer to pay half if your child can earn the other half.

amother

Garnet

Sat, Feb 04 2023, 11:32 pm

amother Mintcream wrote:

I grew up knowing we were poor-ish and I have terrible financial anxiety now. And no tools to be able to be a high earner.

There is probably a difference of a child worrying about food and roof versus being careful to a responsible degree.

amother

Mintcream

Sat, Feb 04 2023, 11:43 pm

amother Garnet wrote:

There is probably a difference of a child worrying about food and roof versus being careful to a responsible degree.

I was not worried about food and roof. Only about seminary, shidduchim (I ended up not marrying a learning boy) and worried about my parents’ stress levels

amother

Garnet

Sat, Feb 04 2023, 11:56 pm

amother Mintcream wrote:

I was not worried about food and roof. Only about seminary, shidduchim (I ended up not marrying a learning boy) and worried about my parents’ stress levels

This is a boy child. He isn't going to worry about yeshiva giving a break, or supporting a learning boy. I do see I was referring mostly to boys who I had in mind. I see that it is different for girls somewhat.. Seeing your parents stress over it is traumatizing, that I don't suggest. Knowing factually is not the same as seeing the stress.

naturalmom5

Sun, Feb 05 2023, 12:29 am

just say no

The world has enuf spoiled entitled brats

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