How to determine if you're close enough to go to shiva house

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Forum -> Relationships -> Manners & Etiquette

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amother

Mon, Jan 30 2023, 12:39 pm

An acquaintance from my shul is sitting shiva. I see her just a couple times a year, and never communicate by phone. I can't decide if it's appropriate for me to be menachem avel. I will be uncomfortable, and I'm afraid she'll be uncomfortable too. On the other hand, it's a mitzvah, although I doubt it's actually a mitzvah if she actually prefers I don't come. If I meet her in the street over the next couple of months, I can be menachem her then. WWYD?

amother

DarkKhaki

Mon, Jan 30 2023, 12:42 pm

I had a similar dilemma recently and someone told me that if you would go to her simcha then you should go to the Shiva too. Otherwise skip it.

amother

Midnight

Mon, Jan 30 2023, 12:44 pm

If you will feel weird the next time you see her that you didn’t go, then you should go.

Ema of 5

Mon, Jan 30 2023, 12:46 pm

If you think she will appreciate you bring there, then go.

tichellady

Mon, Jan 30 2023, 1:00 pm

I dont ever regret going to a shiva house. just don't speak if you don't have anything to say. listen

amother

Slategray

Mon, Jan 30 2023, 1:02 pm

Going in for 2 minutes, and saying words of comfort can never be wrong.
Don’t overstay or over talk.

amother

Indigo

Mon, Jan 30 2023, 1:03 pm

amother DarkKhaki wrote:

I had a similar dilemma recently and someone told me that if you would go to her simcha then you should go to the Shiva too. Otherwise skip it.

This is exactly the criteria I use

amother

Wandflower

Mon, Jan 30 2023, 1:04 pm

I dont see how you can go wrong by going.

If this causes a whole upheaval in your life, then you may consider if this person is close enough for that.

mha3484

Mon, Jan 30 2023, 1:08 pm

I would go but go when there are others there too. Someone I barely knew with kind of a strong personality came to be menachem avel me in the morning when no one else was there and it was not the greatest. When I want to go to someone I am not close with, I go at night when there will be more of a crowd.

Chayalle

Mon, Jan 30 2023, 1:12 pm

If you are not super-close to the person, keep it short. Go, sit a few minutes, say Hamakom Yinachem, and leave.

amother

Hawthorn

Mon, Jan 30 2023, 1:16 pm

I don't like going, but I would rather go then bump into them on the street a few days later and feel more awkward.
I try and choose a busy time and sit down for a few minutes, then stand up and say hamokom...
I also try and find someone else I know and go together as it's easier to go with someone.

amother

Ebony

Mon, Jan 30 2023, 1:21 pm

You won't regret going. I actually try not to ever go with a friend, I find when you come alone it's just easier. You don't have to turn around or motion to someone. Or you can stay longer if the Avel is speaking to you. Or leave earlier.

watergirl

Mon, Jan 30 2023, 1:42 pm

Chayalle wrote:

If you are not super-close to the person, keep it short. Go, sit a few minutes, say Hamakom Yinachem, and leave.

For what it's worth, I think this is protocol for most shiva visits. If you are especially close with the person, a longer visit may be ok but it really depends on the person. I know personally when people came and stayed for a while it really bothered me. I didn't have the energy for that.

amother

Hawthorn

Mon, Jan 30 2023, 1:50 pm

watergirl wrote:

I think anyone who's been through shiva has the stories to tell of the oblivious people, the tactless people, the people who ask the wrong questions or think it's their place to tell their own story, offer what they think is chizzuk and so on.

Cheiny

Mon, Jan 30 2023, 1:55 pm

amother OP wrote:

There’s no special closeness necessary to do that difficult but important Mitzvah.
I know of cases where total strangers who’d never met the niftar went to be menachem the family and it’s always appreciated.

watergirl

Mon, Jan 30 2023, 2:00 pm

Cheiny wrote:

I totally disagree. It is nuanced and really depends on each individual situation. For example, when I sat for my mother, I worked as a head of a frum women's organization and lived in a well known building. People came out of curiosity to see the living quarters who I did not know, and other women came who felt they knew me, but I did not know them at all. And they did not just come to say hamakom and leave after a few minutes, they came to pay a visit. It was really strange and truly not appreciated.

Knowing the nifter is not a requirement, but knowing the avel should be if you don't know the nifter. Meaning, you should have a relationship with either/or the avel or the nifter.

S1959

Mon, Jan 30 2023, 2:29 pm

It's only a few minutes - better than regretting later not going. I find it helpful to ask what one can learn from the nifter .

amother

Mon, Jan 30 2023, 2:31 pm

tichellady wrote:

I dont ever regret going to a shiva house. just don't speak if you don't have anything to say. listen

I've regretted going at times.

mha3484

Mon, Jan 30 2023, 2:33 pm

watergirl wrote:

I agree with this. The only exception was that someone else who had also lost a baby came and she gave me a lot of chizzuk. She waited until most people left for the night and stayed and talked to me. I found it really helpful. I had never met her before. But for any other situation if you don't know me, its not comfortable.

amother

Gardenia

Mon, Jan 30 2023, 2:38 pm

Whatever you do please don't make your Shiva call when u happen to meet in the street. From experience I can tell u that it's horrible to have very strong feelings come up on you when ur in the middle of the veg aisle. It's just inappropriate and insensitive.

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