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Is this ethical/ok. Taking vacation on others discount servi
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amother
Papayawhip


 

Post Fri, Feb 03 2023, 2:20 pm
Please don’t keep it a secret from your therapist as it will weigh on you and create distance between you
So not worth it
Better to ask a rov get clear and let the therapist know
You will feel better and it will also help for the future
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amother
Gladiolus


 

Post Fri, Feb 03 2023, 2:20 pm
amother Lightpink wrote:
According to posters on this thread she should sell the cc points and give the cash to the therapist.


Ohh, I hope not…
Therapists already agreed to the amount they are currently charging. If they had a problem with it they would let her know. I don’t think she needs to tell them she temporarily came up with some money.
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amother
Ecru


 

Post Fri, Feb 03 2023, 2:26 pm
amother Gold wrote:
Points often can be converted to cash. If that is not the case, I would have no issues with people using points for vacations. Because it is "free" but only on a flight... But I thought it cost them 2500, not what points they used if the points have no cash value. If the attractions and cash expenses are a lot, then personally I would rethink it because I am not sure I could spend it knowing I have a hard time affording my other needs.
But personally, give me a free hotel room even in my current city and I would be fine. Just 2 days away from it all, sleeping when I want, reading and taking walks... Hiding


I wouldn’t want you to be my therapist. I know my therapist would be happy for me if I were in OP’s shoes. It’s not like OP is living a life of luxury. She found a way to take a vacation. Should she convert her points to dollars and pay every bill she owes instead? You may say yes, but I do not agree knowing the picture OP shared with us. Also, totally your choice to become a therapist- it sounds like you are bitter about your choice and taking it out on OP.
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amother
Lightpink


 

Post Fri, Feb 03 2023, 2:37 pm
I think that what some people don't realize is that for someone who is poor, cc points may be their only option to ever go on vacation. They'll never have cash for it, but if they accumulated enough points they can go away for a few days. And the cash value of points is usualluly less than the worth of nights in a hotel.
If you beleive OP has no right to vacation because the therapist gave her a discount, do you also believe that OP should be showing the therapist her grocery receipts? Maybe she is buying expensive items that the therapist would not approve of.
Obviously that is ridiculous
The therapist gave OP a discount because she realized OP clearly lives simply and not lavishly. Using points for a small vaca does not contradict her lifestyle. It's not like OP has loads of extra cash because the therapist gave her a discount, and now she is using that for vaca. She has points from things SHE spent money on, and she deserves to keep it for herself. And going away for a few days can have amazing benefits for mental health!! So a therapist should definitely understand that.
It's crazy how on this site no one can ever fargin anyone anything. If you ever get any sort of discount, you must live like a true pauper, eating rice and beans, wearing rags and your vacation should be a walk around your block.

Personally. I wouldn't ask a rav this because I dotn see anything wrong with it. The therapist isn't losing out at all by OP going on vaca because she is not even using cash. It's not like OP will be able to pay a higher rate if she doesnt go on the vaca. She can just save the points for whenever she terminates therapy.

It's just the attitude that if I am giving OP a discount, she doesn't DESERVE to go on vaca
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amother
Iris


 

Post Fri, Feb 03 2023, 2:57 pm
Double post
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amother
Iris


 

Post Fri, Feb 03 2023, 2:57 pm
[quote="amother Iris"]As a healthcare provider who has given discounted or free services to community members based on need, I am really surprised to find that there are therapists who would be resentful of the client taking a vacation.

If you agreed to do pro bono or discounted work due to a client's income, that does not mean your goal is to deplete her of every last dime she has. Your goal is to give back to the community for a discounted price, at which it is still worth your time.

To expect her to cash out her points every last dollar is not a kind or sensitive attitude.

She has these points saved up specifically to take a vacation, for the first time in 8 years, and the therapist is resentful saying that money belongs to her? Outlandish. If you don't want to offer a discounted rate, don't.

OP go ahead and take the vacation. Ask your Rabbi if you feel that's the correct thing to do. Please don't listen to someone telling you otherwise on this thread. It's very farfetched that a normal good therapist would have that attitude...
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amother
OP


 

Post Sun, Feb 05 2023, 11:34 am
So to update I want to thank everyone for your responses both those who supported and those who advised to ask a rav. After talking it with DH we went to our Rav (who knows us and our situation pretty well) and he said.

From a Halacha perspective there is absolutely no need to refrain from going or pay the therapist as when they offered the discount they did not specify that it is on condition that if we end up with points one day that it belongs to them.. He said that from a halacha perspective even if we win the lottery tomorrow (I sure hope we do) there would be no HALACHIC requirement to pay up for the past (obviously not the future expenses) because at that time we did not have the means and no condition was made that we must reimburse if we become rich..He said if a therapist is scared of the client becoming rich one day and running off then they are welcome to offer loans (which then either the client wont go for it or the therapist might never make his/her money because most people dont end up wealthy)

From an ethical/hashkafa perspective though he said that if one was helped through therapy and got back on their feet and is now on a higher financial stautus it really would be nice to reimburse/donate/helpout etc.. especially if the therapist is struggling to pay there bills , obviously (without being said)from that point one may not at all continue to receive discounts even from a halacha point.. In regards to the points he said although it can be used to bget cash items it doesnt really count as cash in a sense that it belongs to the therapist as it wasnt really earned in a business matter and more of like a side gift which doesnt make us rich.. The proof he said is if someone needs a downpayment of 200000 for a house and has 100000 dollars in cash and another 100000 in points then assumingly the bank wont give them a mortgae (till they convert it in cash maybe). He said its not like these points will make us into a higher wealthier status. After the vacation seemingly we will be back to where we were before..He did say though that if we had a whole business of making money off points... (buying things for others with our card and using their cash thus accumilating points , airline travel agent etc...) then we cant really claim that we are poor as it is a different level..
He said go on your trip guilt free. He said there is no need to tell the therapist for although they probably wouldnt mind at the same tie you dont stick it in their face and "pinch" them because at the end of the day everyone has some sort of greed and it will hurt them a bit (although they would know what we are doing is right)

Then very nice of him he went to the other room and brought us an envelope (he really knows what we went through and loves our family) and said if by any chance we need something on the vacation that we really want or if we run a bit short from affording therapy not to be hesitant to use it and we should have a safe trip..
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watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 05 2023, 11:41 am
amother OP wrote:
So to update I want to thank everyone for your responses both those who supported and those who advised to ask a rav. After talking it with DH we went to our Rav (who knows us and our situation pretty well) and he said.

From a Halacha perspective there is absolutely no need to refrain from going or pay the therapist as when they offered the discount they did not specify that it is on condition that if we end up with points one day that it belongs to them.. He said that from a halacha perspective even if we win the lottery tomorrow (I sure hope we do) there would be no HALACHIC requirement to pay up for the past (obviously not the future expenses) because at that time we did not have the means and no condition was made that we must reimburse if we become rich..He said if a therapist is scared of the client becoming rich one day and running off then they are welcome to offer loans (which then either the client wont go for it or the therapist might never make his/her money because most people dont end up wealthy)

From an ethical/hashkafa perspective though he said that if one was helped through therapy and got back on their feet and is now on a higher financial stautus it really would be nice to reimburse/donate/helpout etc.. especially if the therapist is struggling to pay there bills , obviously (without being said)from that point one may not at all continue to receive discounts even from a halacha point.. In regards to the points he said although it can be used to bget cash items it doesnt really count as cash in a sense that it belongs to the therapist as it wasnt really earned in a business matter and more of like a side gift which doesnt make us rich.. The proof he said is if someone needs a downpayment of 200000 for a house and has 100000 dollars in cash and another 100000 in points then assumingly the bank wont give them a mortgae (till they convert it in cash maybe). He said its not like these points will make us into a higher wealthier status. After the vacation seemingly we will be back to where we were before..He did say though that if we had a whole business of making money off points... (buying things for others with our card and using their cash thus accumilating points , airline travel agent etc...) then we cant really claim that we are poor as it is a different level..
He said go on your trip guilt free. He said there is no need to tell the therapist for although they probably wouldnt mind at the same tie you dont stick it in their face and "pinch" them because at the end of the day everyone has some sort of greed and it will hurt them a bit (although they would know what we are doing is right)

Then very nice of him he went to the other room and brought us an envelope (he really knows what we went through and loves our family) and said if by any chance we need something on the vacation that we really want or if we run a bit short from affording therapy not to be hesitant to use it and we should have a safe trip..

Perfect!!!! I hope now your mind is clear and you can truly enjoy every second!!
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amother
Fern


 

Post Sun, Feb 05 2023, 11:52 am
Iymnok wrote:
That’s mostly points. The points cover the flight, hotel, and car rental if they choose that. They won’t be paying cash. Eating out and certain attractions is what their expenses really are.
It’s not coming out of your paycheck.


No longer relevant. I’m happy you feel calm.
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amother
Seagreen


 

Post Sun, Feb 05 2023, 1:30 pm
Daas Torah for the win!

We recently had a Shayla with some similarities. We also discussed with our Rav and he also allowed the vacation with specific stipulations.

Enjoy every minute!
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