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Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Purim
Why is everyone blaming the moms and kids? Blame the...
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watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 08 2023, 8:48 am
If a child was screaming and you feel you had to go to a second leining or whatever... blame the baal Koreh and gabbai.

I'm just confused honestly. So many threads after purim about megillah reading. The one from the mother who's husband was in the hospital working was especially heart breaking... so many women here and in the real world who have no choice for whatever reason and must bring their kids to shul in order to hear leining. And these threads coming up with ideas to help the moms... as if it's her fault.

I said in another thread - I was at a purim program on Monday night for a kiruv org. It was full families with their teens, kids, and even babies. And the leining was PERFECT. Why? The baal koreh and his gabbai were so skilled! If a word had to be repeated, it was. If a kid started to make noise, he stopped for a second to allow the parent to deal with the kid. It took maybe 45 minutes.

Purim morning, I was at a regular minyan for leining (about 8:45am). There were some kids, and at one point a little baby started screaming for his or her mother. Ok... so the baal koreh stopped for the two seconds or whatever, then repeated the missed words and went on. Also amazing.

If a shul is not going to organize a play room with a babysitter, and is not going to have any other way for people who have no other choice but to bring their kids in order to hear the megillah, or even for the people who lack the care or seichel to leave their kids elsewhere... it's up to the rabbi and the gabbai to be more selective when finding a baal koreh.

If you need to bring your kids, ask before Purim which places are accommodating and understanding. Consider going out of the box and finding an outreach program, those are especially wonderful.
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melalyse




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 08 2023, 8:54 am
Honestly, some of us don’t want to sit through Megillah reading for an hour. We want to go hear it and come home. In my small community there are at least 10 Megillah readings and probably just as many people that are willing to come read for someone that couldn’t come to one of them.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 08 2023, 8:59 am
If this happens 1-2 times during megillah reading, then sure the baal koreh should pause.

But I don't think it is reasonable to expect a baal koreh to pause every few minutes while he is trying to lein in a room full of screaming kids.

If your child is so disruptive, be considerate to the baal koreh, and everybody else in the room, and go outside. Attend another minyan with times offset from the times of the one your DH attends, and tag-team watching your child. Or get a sitter. Or any of the other solutions proposed in numerous threads.
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amother
Moccasin


 

Post Wed, Mar 08 2023, 9:07 am
Realistically, the baal koreh doesn't hear every noise that gets made in the women's section. If a kid screams, yes. Screaming children are less of an issue than the children sitting near you repeatedly talking to their mother and moving things around- these noises will be loud to you but not to the baal koreh.

If a shul has control over their accoustics, I think they should keep that in mind in general. I don't know if there are relevant halachos here, but for this reading, I would move the baal koreh toward the back of the mens section, or to the side if that's where the women are, so it's more central in general.
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amother
Antiquewhite


 

Post Wed, Mar 08 2023, 9:12 am
The men were the ones who made ridiculously long sounds by us. It took almost an hour.
Not interested in an hourlong megilla
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watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 08 2023, 9:13 am
melalyse wrote:
Honestly, some of us don’t want to sit through Megillah reading for an hour. We want to go hear it and come home. In my small community there are at least 10 Megillah readings and probably just as many people that are willing to come read for someone that couldn’t come to one of them.

45 minutes is not an hour.

And you can't have your cake and eat it too. We have to put our money where our mouth is (sorry for so many clichés here).

Part of being part of a kehilla means caring about the needs of others in addition to the needs and wants of ourselves.

Can't you imagine a women who can not have someone come to her home? She's a single mom and her house is embarrassing to her because she's putting up a good front but not coping at home... or her husband is drunk... so many reasons why she can't have someone in her house. Maybe she has a cat and the baal korah is allergic. Or a dog and he's scared. Or or or.

Still, a baal koreh needs to know when to STOP. It's mind boggling to me that they just keep on going when a baby is crying - then NO ONE is yotzei, everyone is mad, and everyone then has to go to another one. Just STOP LEINING, get the baby out, repeat the pasuk and continue.

My OP does not mean that every leining is 45 mins. It DOES mean that the baal koreh needs to know when to stop and when to repeat. If he just keeps going through the noise, it's on him just as it is on the mom who brought her kid.
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amother
Phlox


 

Post Wed, Mar 08 2023, 9:14 am
The kids are ususally in the womens section The Baal koreh doesn't hear the kid behind me, whispering loudly. And I am so amazed the mother can hear megillah so well over her child talking /whispering to her. Tell me Is she still yotzei?? Find it hard to believe she can concentrate on her kid & megillah at the same time. I sure couldn't concentrate.
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watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 08 2023, 9:16 am
DrMom wrote:
If this happens 1-2 times during megillah reading, then sure the baal koreh should pause.

But I don't think it is reasonable to expect a baal koreh to pause every few minutes while he is trying to lein in a room full of screaming kids.

If your child is so disruptive, be considerate to the baal koreh, and everybody else in the room, and go outside. Attend another minyan with times offset from the times of the one your DH attends, and tag-team watching your child. Or get a sitter. Or any of the other solutions proposed in numerous threads.

I've never heard of a room full of screaming kids. I've never seen a post here about it either.

Hyperbole helps no one.

If a baby cries, the BK has to stop. I think we all know it's never more than a few times a baby cries... him stopping three or four times is not going to lengthen the leining that much, and certainly it won't be longer than having to go to a second leining.
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amother
Melon


 

Post Wed, Mar 08 2023, 9:17 am
I agree excellent post. I do not understand why so many people become so selfish around purim. The lack of kindness about this stressful time for everyone blows my mind.
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PeanutMama




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 08 2023, 9:22 am
What doesn’t help also is that the sound of his voice echoed and it was a lot harder to hear where he was at especially with having hearing loss
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sushilover




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 08 2023, 9:25 am
watergirl wrote:
. And these threads coming up with ideas to help the moms... as if it's her fault.


I don't have an opinion on who is to blame.

I take issue with your assumption that if a woman comes on to this forum with an issue and people give her advice, that means they are faulting her. That's a really unfair way of judging the intentions of our members.
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amother
Phlox


 

Post Wed, Mar 08 2023, 9:26 am
amother Melon wrote:
I agree excellent post. I do not understand why so many people become so selfish around purim. The lack of kindness about this stressful time for everyone blows my mind.


If your baby is crying and you missed a word, you are already not yotzei. Why cause others to miss hearing the megilla properly. being selfish works both ways. Those little kids/ babies don't need to hear megilla. The only solution, especially for single parents is to go to a later reading, that will have babysitting available.
, if you still miss a word, due to a child, that same mother still needs to go hear megllla again, anyways. Do you think she is going to try to hear megilla again? Why take that chance and cause others to lose out of hearing the megilla properly. The Baal Koreh is not stopping, unless to correct his own mistakes. he is not stopping if he can't hear what is going on in the ladies section. Most shuls accoustics are not that great.
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watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 08 2023, 9:27 am
sushilover wrote:
I don't have an opinion on who is to blame.

I take issue with your assumption that if a woman comes on to this forum with an issue and people give her advice, that means they are faulting her. That's a really unfair way of judging the intentions of our members.

Then you are not reading the posts I'm referring to.
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amother
Melon


 

Post Wed, Mar 08 2023, 9:29 am
amother Phlox wrote:
If your baby is crying and you missed a word, you are already not yotzei. Why cause others to miss hearing the megilla properly. being selfish works both ways. Those little kids/ babies don't need to hear megilla. The only solution, especially for single parents is to go to a later reading, that will have babysitting available. and don't tell me that it is hard.
What is hard is, if you still miss a word, due to a child, that mother still needs to go hear megllla again. Why take that chance and cause others to lose out of hearing the megilla properly. The Baal Koreh is not stopping, unless to correct his own mistakes. he is not stopping if he can't hear what is going on in the ladies section. Most shuls accoustics are not that great.


Most rabanim hold you can say that word yourself. It’s funny to me that soooo many keep all chumrahs regarding megillah and it’s not even d’oreisa. It’s just comical.
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amother
Phlox


 

Post Wed, Mar 08 2023, 9:34 am
amother Melon wrote:
Most rabanim hold you can say that word yourself. It’s funny to me that soooo many keep all chumrahs regarding megillah and it’s not even d’oreisa. It’s just comical.


If someone can't read (left their reading glasses at home, no large print available, etc) and is concentrating on the baal koreh strictly. I am not reading the word to myself... Oh and if it is not D'oreisa, then mom can stay home with babies... soooo comical.
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amother
Melon


 

Post Wed, Mar 08 2023, 9:42 am
amother Phlox wrote:
If someone can't read (left their reading glasses at home, no large print available, etc) and is concentrating on the baal koreh strictly. I am not reading the word to myself... Oh and if it is not D'oreisa, then mom can stay home with babies... soooo comical.


No it’s best for everyone to hear a non perfect version. It’s a bit crazy to think some should hear a perfect one and some should just stay home like is implied on many threads. It’s already not being done perfectly because it’s a bigger deal to eat before both at night and in the morning yet people don’t keep that chumrah. It’s sad when a chumrah becomes widespread to the point that everyone is willing to hurt others to keep it.
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amother
Melon


 

Post Wed, Mar 08 2023, 9:44 am
amother Phlox wrote:
If someone can't read (left their reading glasses at home, no large print available, etc) and is concentrating on the baal koreh strictly. I am not reading the word to myself... Oh and if it is not D'oreisa, then mom can stay home with babies... soooo comical.


And if you are obsessed with every word don’t have the chutzpah to leave your reading glasses at home!!! You can’t be serious. I hope you realize how ridiculous that is.
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sushilover




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Mar 08 2023, 9:48 am
watergirl wrote:
Then you are not reading the posts I'm referring to.


You are absolutely right.

I understood your post to mean that giving advice to someone automatically means you are faulting them. Which isn't exactly an uncommon sentiment on this site.( If a woman gets advice on a marriage problem, there will be posters who take issue with the fact that some posters are giving advice to her and not telling the husband what he has to change.)

I apologize if I misunderstood the sentence I quoted. I'd be happy to be corrected.
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amother
Clear


 

Post Wed, Mar 08 2023, 9:50 am
Why would you miss a word even if a baby cries? Assuming it's not full blown shrieking in your ear. I just dont understand the OCD about this.
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amother
Antiquewhite


 

Post Wed, Mar 08 2023, 9:51 am
There are other threads discussing the missing words
Can we keep this one to op-
Having the baal koreh stopping
Having a gabbai who accommodates needs
Our baal koreh stopped and repeated. Ni one missed a word. However
Does megillah need to take an hour- especially after the fast?
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