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dancingqueen
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 Wed, Mar 22 2023, 5:24 pm
| amother Tulip wrote: | | Anyone said some kosher fun isn't ok? The problem is when this is the main reason for going there. |
People seemed to be listing it as a negative and I think it's ok for it to be one of the reasons, before these girls take on the burdens on adulthood.
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mikayla18
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Wed, Mar 22 2023, 9:24 pm
| amother OP wrote: | | I feel like you went to my seminary... |
I would write which seminary I went to but I don't wanna get your thread locked lol
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sara_s
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Wed, Mar 22 2023, 9:30 pm
| amother Fern wrote: | | I was in sem 25 years ago The world changed since then - Israel is not as insulted as it used to be. There used to be very big contrast between America and EY- and unfortunately it’s much less now. |
I think what changed the most is that 25-15 years ago when a girl went to seminary in Israel she disconnected from home and learned how to be independent and manage on her own. Yes she was in a supervised environment, but she still had to make decisions and sometimes troubleshoot, without relying on her family. Nowadays seminary girls (and also Yeshiva boys) remain constantly connected to home through their phone. Every single decision they can call home about, and any troubleshooting is handled by their mother remotely. So they aren't really learning how to be independent, and the time in Israel loses it's value in helping them mature.
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amother
Stonewash
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Thu, Mar 23 2023, 3:09 am
| amother Watermelon wrote: | | Absolutely! When I went (well over 30 years ago) many girls spoke to their parents for a few minutes a month. Now-a-days, I really don't see how most girls gain independence during the seminary year. Not that that is the only reason to go, but when girls come back saying they are more independent, they are either in the minority or delusional. |
I agree with this but I also see it from another angle. On the one hand they are constantly in touch with home, on the other hand their phones give them a freedom of movement that we just didn't have thirty years ago. I wouldn't call it independence but they do seem to do whatever they want whenever they want with little accountability and seem to have worldliness, that we just didn't.
Let me explain. When I was in sem, nobody had phones. Any time we wanted money we had to request it to be released from the stash of cash that we had placed in the school's safe for safekeeping and then we had to go and change it.
So every thing we did it bought or planned was far more planned and thought out than just swiping a credit card or scanning a phone. At that point in my life it would never have occurred to me or any of my friends to book a room in a fancy hotel for shabbos and go with a group of friends.
I have hosted many girls over the years and all they talk about is the trips they go on ( not part of the official school trip schedule), going out to eat, ordering food on a daily basis, going off to escape rooms, dessert tours, rope courses etc in their spare time.
Most of the girls are good girls and don't do anything objectively wrong as far as I can tell, but it sure seems that they are not here for too much spiritual growth and are constantly looking for fun and thrills.
When I was here as a sem student, the highlight of the week was going to the kotel and maybe sometimes a felafel...and somehow we also had a great deal of fun even though in some ways we more sheltered and maybe more childlike.
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sara_s
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Thu, Mar 23 2023, 5:03 am
| amother Stonewash wrote: | I agree with this but I also see it from another angle. On the one hand they are constantly in touch with home, on the other hand their phones give them a freedom of movement that we just didn't have thirty years ago. I wouldn't call it independence but they do seem to do whatever they want whenever they want with little accountability and seem to have worldliness, that we just didn't.
Let me explain. When I was in sem, nobody had phones. Any time we wanted money we had to request it to be released from the stash of cash that we had placed in the school's safe for safekeeping and then we had to go and change it.
So every thing we did it bought or planned was far more planned and thought out than just swiping a credit card or scanning a phone. At that point in my life it would never have occurred to me or any of my friends to book a room in a fancy hotel for shabbos and go with a group of friends.
I have hosted many girls over the years and all they talk about is the trips they go on ( not part of the official school trip schedule), going out to eat, ordering food on a daily basis, going off to escape rooms, dessert tours, rope courses etc in their spare time.
Most of the girls are good girls and don't do anything objectively wrong as far as I can tell, but it sure seems that they are not here for too much spiritual growth and are constantly looking for fun and thrills.
When I was here as a sem student, the highlight of the week was going to the kotel and maybe sometimes a felafel...and somehow we also had a great deal of fun even though in some ways we more sheltered and maybe more childlike. |
Agree with you. But I actually think that freely spending parents money on extras and thrills without thinking twice is childlike.. and focusing on studying and the reasons to spend a year in Israel is mature..
The kichels comics showing girls calling home to ask what to buy as a hostess gift and what to wear drive me crazy. Like when are these young women ever going to be expected to grow up? It's like cradle-to-chupah.
(Off topic but I do think that the expectation that seminary girls fend for themselves for shabbos is bizarre though, and it totally makes sense to ask for family help with that. IMHO all the reasons being given for that model are just a cover up for trying to save money and give staff a break. I'm happy some seminaries are providing optional in shabboses nowadays. Finding a place to stay by oneself for shabbos does force one to grow up, but also can lead to risky situations. I've heard crazy stories about places that sem girls ended up for Shabbos. I once unintentionally went with friends to a woman a few days after she gave birth when other plans fell through. She didn't tell us until we got there because she felt bad when asked!)
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