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Forum
-> Parenting our children
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amother
OP
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 Sun, Mar 26 2023, 9:08 pm
I’m sorry but when people say…” why is having children a privilege for the (insert circumstance-ie rich, balabustes,healthy,mentally stable etc.”)
We’ll guess what, having children is a privilege! And yes, it should only be done if you are ready to commit to the package…
I don’t think you need to be perfect, but you need to be willing to give them your all!
You need to be willing to sacrifice!
You need to be willing to work on yourself!
You need to be willing to deal with them when you’re tired, and hungry!
You need to try to give them a stable safe environment!
Otherwise…you don't deserve this privilege.
Throw tomatoes…..
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hodeez
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Sun, Mar 26 2023, 9:14 pm
| amother OP wrote: | I’m sorry but when people say…” why is having children a privilege for the (insert circumstance-ie rich, balabustes,healthy,mentally stable etc.”)
We’ll guess what, having children is a privilege! And yes, it should only be done if you are ready to commit to the package…
I don’t think you need to be perfect, but you need to be willing to give them your all!
You need to be willing to sacrifice!
You need to be willing to work on yourself!
You need to be willing to deal with them when you’re tired, and hungry!
You need to try to give them a stable safe environment!
Otherwise…you don't deserve this privilege.
Throw tomatoes….. |
... Who says this?
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amother
cornflower
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Sun, Mar 26 2023, 9:15 pm
| amother OP wrote: | I’m sorry but when people say…” why is having children a privilege for the (insert circumstance-ie rich, balabustes,healthy,mentally stable etc.”)
We’ll guess what, having children is a privilege! And yes, it should only be done if you are ready to commit to the package…
I don’t think you need to be perfect, but you need to be willing to give them your all!
You need to be willing to sacrifice!
You need to be willing to work on yourself!
You need to be willing to deal with them when you’re tired, and hungry!
You need to try to give them a stable safe environment!
Otherwise…you don't deserve this privilege.
Throw tomatoes….. |
I agree. I think people should have to get a license to have a baby. People need to go through exams and licenses to drive a car or become an accountant yet anyone and everyone is allowed to become a parent.
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amother
Hunter
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Sun, Mar 26 2023, 9:17 pm
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Why say throw tomatoes at the end? I see it a lot here. Stand behind your words and say your piece and don’t add that. It’s just asking people to argue. I feel like it sets a tone that isn’t necessary.
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amother
Clear
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Sun, Mar 26 2023, 9:19 pm
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It is both a privilege and a responsibility.
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amother
Burntblack
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Sun, Mar 26 2023, 9:31 pm
A privilege?
It’s a human urge that naturally is burdensome.
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amother
Dimgray
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Sun, Mar 26 2023, 9:35 pm
| amother OP wrote: | I’m sorry but when people say…” why is having children a privilege for the (insert circumstance-ie rich, balabustes,healthy,mentally stable etc.”)
We’ll guess what, having children is a privilege! And yes, it should only be done if you are ready to commit to the package…
I don’t think you need to be perfect, but you need to be willing to give them your all!
You need to be willing to sacrifice!
You need to be willing to work on yourself!
You need to be willing to deal with them when you’re tired, and hungry!
You need to try to give them a stable safe environment!
Otherwise…you don't deserve this privilege.
Throw tomatoes….. |
Okay, maybe it is a privilege...
but none of those things are only for someone rich, a balabusta, healthy, or mentally stable.
You can be poor, even destitute, you can be the world's most scattered person, you can be struggling with mental health AND
Be ready to give your children your all.
Swallow your pride and ask for food if your child might be hungry.
Be ready to sacrifice.
Work on yourself to be a better mother.
When (not if) you mess up, apologize and work on a better way.
Be a mother when you're tired, hungry, overwhelmed, or stressed.
Do your best to give them a safe and stable environment.
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amother
Cadetblue
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Sun, Mar 26 2023, 9:36 pm
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How can someone be a parent when they’re severely overwhelmed?
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amother
Peony
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Sun, Mar 26 2023, 9:37 pm
| amother OP wrote: | I’m sorry but when people say…” why is having children a privilege for the (insert circumstance-ie rich, balabustes,healthy,mentally stable etc.”)
We’ll guess what, having children is a privilege! And yes, it should only be done if you are ready to commit to the package…
I don’t think you need to be perfect, but you need to be willing to give them your all!
You need to be willing to sacrifice!
You need to be willing to work on yourself!
You need to be willing to deal with them when you’re tired, and hungry!
You need to try to give them a stable safe environment!
Otherwise…you don't deserve this privilege.
Throw tomatoes….. |
I agree with you, but I don't think this is a common opinion in the Frum world.
I have secular friends - married, educated professionals - who are childless by choice because they know they aren't ready or able to do the things you mentioned above and wouldn't be good parents. So they make the decision to not have children.
Do Frum couples even have the option to be childless by choice? Maybe there are a handful, but I can't imagine it's common.
Maybe I'm misinterpreting your original post?
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amother
OP
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Sun, Mar 26 2023, 9:48 pm
| amother Dimgray wrote: | Okay, maybe it is a privilege...
but none of those things are only for someone rich, a balabusta, healthy, or mentally stable.
You can be poor, even destitute, you can be the world's most scattered person, you can be struggling with mental health AND
Be ready to give your children your all.
Swallow your pride and ask for food if your child might be hungry.
Be ready to sacrifice.
Work on yourself to be a better mother.
When (not if) you mess up, apologize and work on a better way.
Be a mother when you're tired, hungry, overwhelmed, or stressed.
Do your best to give them a safe and stable environment. |
True, I was just using that line people use…about privilege
But if you do all of the above, the privilege is all theirs!
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amother
OP
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Sun, Mar 26 2023, 9:54 pm
| amother Peony wrote: | I agree with you, but I don't think this is a common opinion in the Frum world.
I have secular friends - married, educated professionals - who are childless by choice because they know they aren't ready or able to do the things you mentioned above and wouldn't be good parents. So they make the decision to not have children.
Do Frum couples even have the option to be childless by choice? Maybe there are a handful, but I can't imagine it's common.
Maybe I'm misinterpreting your original post? |
Maybe because of the fact that we are expected to have them, and keep having them, we forget that it’s a privilege.
I do believe Hashem wants us to have children, but he also wants us to sacrifice for them. If you’re just listening to him by having them, and not giving it your all then you’re not doing his bidding.
So it’s time we remind people. Kids are a privilege. If you want to have a big family because you love having tons of einiklech etc in the future, then you need to put in the effort into them now….
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amother
Daphne
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Sun, Mar 26 2023, 10:16 pm
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The first Mitzvah in the Torah is peru u’revu. It says nothing about needing to be a good parent. To think about this question from a Torah perspective. The perspective of the OP is not in line with the literal translation of the stark rational Torah perspective.
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amother
Amber
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Sun, Mar 26 2023, 10:18 pm
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Of course it's a privilege. If we would need to get a license to have kids there would not be a soul getting this license. Since no one came down to this world as a perfect human being. Once we are perfect in every area we did our tafkid in this world. Our children enable us to become the best people we can be. And yes we will definitely keep falling through with our basic human struggles but we live and learn. Yes on our kids. Yes on people. Yes on the world. We are only human.
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BaltoMom65
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Sun, Mar 26 2023, 10:18 pm
| amother cornflower wrote: | | I agree. I think people should have to get a license to have a baby. People need to go through exams and licenses to drive a car or become an accountant yet anyone and everyone is allowed to become a parent. | Uhhh..judged against who's standards? Think about what you are saying...is it Justin Trudeau or Matt Walsh or the Saudi Royal family value system?
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mushkamothers
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Sun, Mar 26 2023, 10:19 pm
It's not a privilege, that implies that only certain people can/should have kids. That's basically eugenics.
It is a big gift and a big bracha and also a big responsibility.
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BaltoMom65
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Sun, Mar 26 2023, 10:22 pm
| amother cornflower wrote: | | I agree. I think people should have to get a license to have a baby. People need to go through exams and licenses to drive a car or become an accountant yet anyone and everyone is allowed to become a parent. | Are you kidding? What is the yardstick to judge? Are you agreeing to the standards and values of the Chinese Communist Party to raise your kids? Or the Mormon church or the Waco cult? This is literally a ridiculous, short sighted thing to say.
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amother
Maize
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Sun, Mar 26 2023, 10:27 pm
| amother OP wrote: | Maybe because of the fact that we are expected to have them, and keep having them, we forget that it’s a privilege.
I do believe Hashem wants us to have children, but he also wants us to sacrifice for them. If you’re just listening to him by having them, and not giving it your all then you’re not doing his bidding.
So it’s time we remind people. Kids are a privilege. If you want to have a big family because you love having tons of einiklech etc in the future, then you need to put in the effort into them now…. |
I don't think it is possible to have children without sacrificing for them. Everybody tries their best... please stop the judgement.
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professor
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Sun, Mar 26 2023, 10:30 pm
| amother cornflower wrote: | | I agree. I think people should have to get a license to have a baby. People need to go through exams and licenses to drive a car or become an accountant yet anyone and everyone is allowed to become a parent. |
Don't say that omg. People in the government might take this seriously and then we'll have real problems...
Quote from my favorite TV show: "when you become a parent, you put your child first. No matter what."
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amother
Dimgray
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Sun, Mar 26 2023, 10:31 pm
| amother Cadetblue wrote: | | How can someone be a parent when they’re severely overwhelmed? |
When you're overwhelmed is actually one of the best times...
It teaches you priorities.
Okay it's not easy, sweet bonding time, lots of lazy mornings gazing into baby's eyes and laughter over each time they kick you.
It's crazy and chaos and lots of mess and probably a bunch of screaming and tears at first.
But it teaches you to stop rushing and give hugs.
To come late to work because the kids needed you more.
To have a simpler Shabbos table and faces that are shining.
How to admit when you need help.
The ever challenging art of apologies.
You make a lot more mistakes at first, but you also learn faster. So many opportunities in such a short time.
If you're committed to the project and know your priorities deep down, you can accomplish amazing things in the trenches.
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amother
Peony
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Sun, Mar 26 2023, 10:34 pm
| amother OP wrote: | Maybe because of the fact that we are expected to have them, and keep having them, we forget that it’s a privilege.
I do believe Hashem wants us to have children, but he also wants us to sacrifice for them. If you’re just listening to him by having them, and not giving it your all then you’re not doing his bidding.
So it’s time we remind people. Kids are a privilege. If you want to have a big family because you love having tons of einiklech etc in the future, then you need to put in the effort into them now…. |
But my point is that if someone doesn’t feel willing or able to sacrifice, or otherwise not able to “commit to the whole package” like your first post said, they’re still expected to have children. Do any of you live in communities where “childless by choice” is common?
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