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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Our Challenging Children (gifted, ADHD, sensitive, defiant)
S/o "Doubling" and adhd?
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amother
OP


 

Post Tue, Mar 28 2023, 12:55 pm
I've never heard of this. But it sounds an awful lot like my dd with adhd who needs someone else around to do almost everything- studying, making food, etc. She's pretty great at these things and motivated with people around, and rotten at it won't bother without. She wants company most of the time, and can get really disregulated when she has to go too long without.

But it's not realistic to always have someone. So what is there to do? Homework has to happen whether someone is there or not, for example. And no, an hour of a homework helper or tutor even every school day isn't enough.

I'd love to hear both guidance and about people's experiences.
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amother
DarkViolet


 

Post Tue, Mar 28 2023, 12:59 pm
One of the hallmarks of adhd is missing internal motivation so all that makes so much sense.
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amother
Charcoal


 

Post Tue, Mar 28 2023, 1:29 pm
amother OP wrote:
I've never heard of this. But it sounds an awful lot like my dd with adhd who needs someone else around to do almost everything- studying, making food, etc. She's pretty great at these things and motivated with people around, and rotten at it won't bother without. She wants company most of the time, and can get really disregulated when she has to go too long without.

But it's not realistic to always have someone. So what is there to do? Homework has to happen whether someone is there or not, for example. And no, an hour of a homework helper or tutor even every school day isn't enough.

I'd love to hear both guidance and about people's experiences.


Doubling can have a lot of benefits - extrinsic motivation/accountability, it can be reassuring of how to do a task we struggle to initiate, and there’s also a possibility that mirror neurons help us regulate and focus. What will be most helpful for your DD depends on which of those she benefits most from.
The good news is that the need for doubling tends to drop the better we get at something. So she may need someone to double with her for the first 10 rounds of doing a task, and then it won’t be so difficult. That’s an expectations thing - don’t expect her to learn a new chore and be able to do it right away. Make time to help her or have a sibling help her for a while.

With homework, does she have an IEP/equivalent? Can her homework be limited to only the most important problem or one problem per skill? Sitting down to a pile of homework is incredibly difficult, especially when all of your dopamine is used up and you’ve still got 15 math problems to do.

If that’s not an option, what other doubling activities can she do during a break? Can she play catch, do yoga, or a choreographed dance routine with you or a sibling for 15 minutes? (bonus doubling points if that person also then goes and does homework or reading). If you have little ones, maybe you coordinate homework after they’re in bed and you can sit and read while she studies? Or if her father learns at home, can she double him?

generally suggested regulating activities might also help her get through some things without needing doubling:

-brown noise
-music/audiobooks
-videos if you let her watch them
-a ball to bounce on or a rocking chair to sit on while she works
-swinging before she does a task, or while studying
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amother
Peachpuff


 

Post Tue, Mar 28 2023, 1:31 pm
Such a cool name! This would explain why dh always asks me to be with him when he does things like pack, organize, cook, clean etc. I’m like “why do you need me here I’m literally just standing here and bringing you stuff why can I do this myself and you can’t”
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amother
OP


 

Post Tue, Mar 28 2023, 1:35 pm
amother Charcoal wrote:
Doubling can have a lot of benefits - extrinsic motivation/accountability, it can be reassuring of how to do a task we struggle to initiate, and there’s also a possibility that mirror neurons help us regulate and focus. What will be most helpful for your DD depends on which of those she benefits most from.
The good news is that the need for doubling tends to drop the better we get at something. So she may need someone to double with her for the first 10 rounds of doing a task, and then it won’t be so difficult. That’s an expectations thing - don’t expect her to learn a new chore and be able to do it right away. Make time to help her or have a sibling help her for a while.

With homework, does she have an IEP/equivalent? Can her homework be limited to only the most important problem or one problem per skill? Sitting down to a pile of homework is incredibly difficult, especially when all of your dopamine is used up and you’ve still got 15 math problems to do.

If that’s not an option, what other doubling activities can she do during a break? Can she play catch, do yoga, or a choreographed dance routine with you or a sibling for 15 minutes? (bonus doubling points if that person also then goes and does homework or reading). If you have little ones, maybe you coordinate homework after they’re in bed and you can sit and read while she studies? Or if her father learns at home, can she double him?

generally suggested regulating activities might also help her get through some things without needing doubling:

-brown noise
-music/audiobooks
-videos if you let her watch them
-a ball to bounce on or a rocking chair to sit on while she works
-swinging before she does a task, or while studying


Music is helpful in a limited way. Videos are occupying qhen she has nothing she needs to do but just wants company. Swinging and ball bouncing and the like tend to start out working and then become the primary focus...

Yes, having me there and involved helps a lot. (There are no siblings available.) But it means I always have to be available, and that's not realistic. It's pretty difficult to know that if I go to a wedding, my kid won't/can't do her homework, when she's in 8th grade. And that midterms means I'm on call constantly. Because school is alwys hard no matter how often, and there's no real way to reduce the workload often.

Moreover, she gets really upset when she wants to do something like organize her room or bake cupcakes for someone and she feels she can't because nobody will stay and be with her. And because this is or feels necessary for her, she blames me for not being available- why is hanging with her while she does things not as important and deiving her to school or making supper? It causes a lot of fights.
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amother
Lemon


 

Post Tue, Mar 28 2023, 1:59 pm
focusmate
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amother
OP


 

Post Tue, Mar 28 2023, 2:15 pm
amother Lemon wrote:
focusmate


What's that?

Basically, what I'm trying to figure out is, if she has something to do, with double the time she would need if someone was there, is it realistic to expect her to do it if nobody else can be there? And correspondingly, how much do I need to arrange my life around being there?
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amother
Peach


 

Post Tue, Mar 28 2023, 2:28 pm
amother DarkViolet wrote:
One of the hallmarks of adhd is missing internal motivation so all that makes so much sense.


Do you have a source for that? For my peace of mind.
2 kids and spouse with adhd.
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amother
Lemon


 

Post Tue, Mar 28 2023, 2:29 pm
[quote="amother OP"]What's that?

Basically, what I'm trying to figure out is, if she has something to do, with double the time she would need if someone was there, is it realistic to expect her to do it if nobody else can be there? And correspondingly, how much do I need to arrange my life around being there?[/quote

Google it. it's an app that people log onto while they work so they can feel like someone is there working with them. I think you can add your friends.... I don't know how it would work for a kid but you can look in to it.
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piegirl




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 28 2023, 2:47 pm
Omg. I was never diagnosed with adhd, but have a lot of symptoms. This is me exactly!!! With no one home I just sit, and when I need to do a big project I procrastinate so much unless I have someone there to do it with me. They literally could just be sitting on the bed while I go through my kids summer clothes and throw out donate etc and take out winter. I just can’t do it without someone there!!!!
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amother
Forestgreen


 

Post Tue, Mar 28 2023, 2:55 pm
I hire a homework helper for one hour a day and it’s the helpers job to move her along. If it’s taking over an hour then we need to reduce what she is responsible for. Dd is in 5th grade so we’ll see if that changes when she gets older. But I think homework has diminishing returns if you try to have these kids do too much.
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amother
OP


 

Post Tue, Mar 28 2023, 2:57 pm
[quote="amother Lemon"]
amother OP wrote:
What's that?

Basically, what I'm trying to figure out is, if she has something to do, with double the time she would need if someone was there, is it realistic to expect her to do it if nobody else can be there? And correspondingly, how much do I need to arrange my life around being there?[/quote

Google it. it's an app that people log onto while they work so they can feel like someone is there working with them. I think you can add your friends.... I don't know how it would work for a kid but you can look in to it.


Looked it up- looks awesome for an adult in theory, though I might be nervous about the stranger aspect. But definitely not for a kid. A professional who works with her suggested we arrange something similar with a friend of hers, but so far no success in setting it up. And the few times she tried it as a one time deal, she lost track of time and forgot to start.
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amother
Glitter


 

Post Tue, Mar 28 2023, 3:02 pm
It's definitely a thing. And BTW, you can absolutely arrange to have someone there when it's really needed. Dh found someone at work who also has adhd and they do that, they both find it helpful.
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amother
OP


 

Post Tue, Mar 28 2023, 3:09 pm
amother Forestgreen wrote:
I hire a homework helper for one hour a day and it’s the helpers job to move her along. If it’s taking over an hour then we need to reduce what she is responsible for. Dd is in 5th grade so we’ll see if that changes when she gets older. But I think homework has diminishing returns if you try to have these kids do too much.


Dd is in 8th. An hour is enough for daily homework on most days, but not for the projects and papers she has at this point. And it will definitely not be enough in high school next year. If a test needs more than an hour to study, then it does.
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amother
Lemon


 

Post Tue, Mar 28 2023, 3:12 pm
amother OP wrote:
Looked it up- looks awesome for an adult in theory, though I might be nervous about the stranger aspect. But definitely not for a kid. A professional who works with her suggested we arrange something similar with a friend of hers, but so far no success in setting it up. And the few times she tried it as a one time deal, she lost track of time and forgot to start.


yeah that's what I meant, to do something like that with a friend. I also wouldn't have my child do it with a stranger but just wanted to give you the idea of how it works. but yeah you need to remember to start, can she set a reminder?
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giftedmom




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 28 2023, 3:13 pm
It would probably be helpful for her to learn to do things herself when necessary. She will need to learn that skill eventually. Therapy might be helpful with that.
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LovesHashem




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 28 2023, 3:23 pm
amother Lemon wrote:
focusmate


There's actually a bunch of frum people on there. I forgot about that site. Used to help me a lotttt
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LovesHashem




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Mar 28 2023, 3:24 pm
What about hiring an ADHD coach to help come up with other solutions to help motivate her? She won't have someone around all the time in adult life.
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amother
Charcoal


 

Post Tue, Mar 28 2023, 3:40 pm
amother OP wrote:
Music is helpful in a limited way. Videos are occupying qhen she has nothing she needs to do but just wants company. Swinging and ball bouncing and the like tend to start out working and then become the primary focus...

Yes, having me there and involved helps a lot. (There are no siblings available.) But it means I always have to be available, and that's not realistic. It's pretty difficult to know that if I go to a wedding, my kid won't/can't do her homework, when she's in 8th grade. And that midterms means I'm on call constantly. Because school is alwys hard no matter how often, and there's no real way to reduce the workload often.

Moreover, she gets really upset when she wants to do something like organize her room or bake cupcakes for someone and she feels she can't because nobody will stay and be with her. And because this is or feels necessary for her, she blames me for not being available- why is hanging with her while she does things not as important and deiving her to school or making supper? It causes a lot of fights.


The last part of this is interesting and makes me wonder if it’s not entirely about doubling. Organizing her room and suddenly baking cupcakes are very classic hyperfixation things, and that usually negates the need for a double. I think it might be as much or more about emotions. Is she wanting to shmooze or have you involved while doing these things? Or does she just work quietly as long as you’re there?

Re: the others, music doesn’t help me much either, though it was the only way I could get through my AP US history readings in high school. Videos seem counterproductive (my parents would have NEVER let me watch a movie while I did my homework) but as an adult I find it extremely helpful when I’m working. But, there’s a fine line for me of it being interesting/stimulating enough to keep me engaged, and not being so enthralling that I can’t stop watching. Maybe try a movie she’s seen before and really likes?
Swinging and bouncing are probably too excitatory for her then - if setting time limits don’t make those doable, try something like deep pressure.

She’s also old enough to have these things explained to her and to help decide what skills to use. Are there any activities she does hyperfixate on independently? If so, ask her how her brain feels when she does those vs not. And then as you offer strategies, ask her to pay attention to those feelings and let you know which ones help make her brain feel the way it does when she fixates.

Does her school offer executive skills support? It’s called AVID in public schools, and the BY where I live has something similar. It helps teach kids these skills and they’re able to study in a group. Based on your wedding comment I assume you’re in town, so I’m sure there are at least a handful of other girls locally or in her school who could benefit from something like this.
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amother
Brass


 

Post Wed, Mar 29 2023, 10:51 am
amother Peach wrote:
Do you have a source for that? For my peace of mind.
2 kids and spouse with adhd.


It's one of the main characteristics. I recommend you read up a lot more about adhd.
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