DD inappropriate exposure friend's smartphone

amother

Thu, Mar 30 2023, 10:11 am

Unfortunately my teen dd's school doesn't have a rule about filters/smart phones and although most parents don't allow it, there is one girl in the class who has an unfiltered smartphone. I've had talks from today until tomorrow with DD about making the right choices and internet safety etc. but I know that when she gets together with this friend, they are using all types of social media apps, meeting other teens (boys) online, posting dancing videos etc.
She doesn't know that I know this, but even if she did, what can I do about this?
Speaking with the girl's parents is not an option - they are very modern and don't care (I tried).
If I forbid her from spending time with this girl, she will just do it behind my back.
What can I do?

amother

Thu, Mar 30 2023, 10:19 am

Chayalle wrote:

What does she get out of choosing to spend time with this particular friend? Is she missing something? What areas can you give her positive attention and good messages, to counteract the negative (and to fill her up so she doesn't feel a need for them)?

She loves thrills and action. She's always asking to watch movies, go places, etc. We try to give her as many healthy outlets as we can, but we do have strict boundaries around technology at home.

Chayalle

Thu, Mar 30 2023, 10:37 am

amother OP wrote:

She loves thrills and action. She's always asking to watch movies, go places, etc. We try to give her as many healthy outlets as we can, but we do have strict boundaries around technology at home.

That's hard. She's not ready to listen to speeches about this, and she's getting something out of the friendship that she seems to want. Plus, it's challenging to be a teen in a school with no rules.
Basically, you have a teen in a setting that is not compatible with your goals/hashkafos, and she is not ready to live at the standards you want.
I'm not sure there's much you can do beyond keeping your relationship as positive as you can and doing your best to encourage other friendships (you can't stop this one) (at least then she won't spend all her time with this friend.)
And daven for her. Ask Hashem to help her want to make better choices.

amother

Red

Thu, Mar 30 2023, 10:52 am

Does your DD share your hashkafos? Does she think there's anything wrong with what she's doing?

Or is she just tolerating your rules as much as she's forced to, while inwardly thinking you are misguided?

Big difference between (1) a kid who shares your hashkafah in principle but finds certain things tempting and then feels guilty for giving in and (2) a kid who just stam thinks you're wrong and believes what she's doing is fine. Kid #1 can very much benefit from you setting up some additional structure. Kid #2 you can't try to control with rules. You have to work from the inside out to try to genuinely connect and change the mindset.

amother

Crystal

Thu, Mar 30 2023, 10:55 am

Two sided approach:
In light conversation, explain why her values are not compatible with her friend's. Concentrate on what she thinks is okay and right, don't lecture your values at her. Bring out her values and standards from within her.
Don't put down the friend, explain that she is probably a very nice girl and a great friend and you're happy she has friends etc etc but there is a conflict here in values.

Also see how you can keep your daughter busy with other things.

My son is like this, always aiming for most fun. There's no quick fix. Lots of these types of discussions again and again.

amother

Thu, Mar 30 2023, 10:59 am

Chayalle wrote:

Thank you for your insights.

amother

Thu, Mar 30 2023, 11:02 am

amother Red wrote:

She is kid #1, but she is extremely resistant to rules. She's very strong-minded and independent. We've had open conversations about these types of things before and she says she wants to be a good girl, but right now as a teen she also wants to experiment and try out the things her friends are doing. We discussed long-term ramifications, etc. and she is trying to be "smart" about what she does, but as much as she knows what's right and wrong, she is still going to do these things. That's where she's holding.

amother

Thu, Mar 30 2023, 11:03 am

amother Crystal wrote:

Thank you, I've had so many conversations like this with her though. Like I wrote in my previous post, in her head she knows what the right thing is and she agress with me, but l'maaseh she still wants to have fun and do these types of things.

amother

Red

Thu, Mar 30 2023, 11:25 am

amother OP wrote:

Kid #1 is easier than Kid #2, so that's good Smile

Keep the open conversation going, great job so far.

If she's willing, I would try learning something with her regularly, at least a few times a week. Could be you or your husband. And I don't mean some mussar book about the internet or something "inspirational." But an actual classic text. Something from Tanach that she hasn't done in school, Mishneh Torah, Sefer HaChinuch, something like that. If her skills are not strong, then use English translation, but learn the concepts well, try to connect them back to other texts and mitzvos. Try to get her to volunteer her opinions and reactions and engage her in discussion. Doesn't matter what it's about, can be something totally pareve like hilchos maaser or korbanos. When you've covered a substantial unit, celebrate with a family siyum.

My experience is that regular parent-child learning, if the material is learned in a way that is interesting and enjoyable for the child, strengthens both the relationship to the parent and the relationship to Torah. And as those relationships strengthen, things that are in tension with those relationships become more dissonant and less appealing. YMMV.

amother

Crystal

Thu, Mar 30 2023, 11:40 am

amother OP wrote:

That's teenagers for you.
What else is fun for her? What else can she be involved in?
This reminds me of what my son told me: if my friend has a smartphone, I have one too.

amother

Viola

Thu, Mar 30 2023, 11:45 am

amother OP wrote:

Yes, the school said there is nothing they can do. Other parents are concerned as well, but no one has any good ideas.

What a mess. Why is the school not getting involved? If it is a school with right wing hashkafos (even if out of town and mix of types), they should definitely be able to help. They may not have policies about what parents allow their children to do, but if a girl is exposing multiple others in the class? It becomes a communal achrayus. How is it possible they will just ignore?

amother

Red

Thu, Mar 30 2023, 12:08 pm

amother Viola wrote:

If the school is a community school with a right wing administration, then those types of schools usually do not try to control what families do outside of school. It does not sound like the other girl is bringing anything into school.

Also, if OP's independent strong-willed DD would be angry at being forbidden to hang out with her friend, can you imagine how she'll feel when she finds out her mom twisted the school's arm to discipline or expel her friend? I think it would only make things worse and likely would stop OP's DD from telling her mother anything in the future.

amother

Chestnut

Thu, Mar 30 2023, 12:12 pm

Make sure she knows that she MUST be on birth control before having s-x. It doesn’t sound like she’s at that point necessarily but you wouldn’t know if she reached it. Becoming pregnant would ruin her life - make sure she knows the morning after pill only works if you haven’t ovulated yet.

NotInNJMommy

Thu, Mar 30 2023, 12:14 pm

How old is this teen? 13? 17?

At a certain point, you can't control what teens do. You can teach them good values and skills and safety and dignity and self respect, etc., but teens are going to do what they are going to do. They also need to learn how to self regulate.

Can you get your teen and her friends hanging out more at your home? Can you talk to your teen about internet safety, etc.? I know Torah values and halacha are important, but sometimes it's more effective to address just common sense safety, etc. things rather than "what halachah says" straight on. The thing is, as kids become teens, especially older teens, you can't really micromanage them. You need to prepare them to have common sense and good values and strong character/healthy boundaries and then daven...a lot.

amother

Viola

Thu, Mar 30 2023, 12:23 pm

amother Red wrote:

I went to a community school, there were no rules about what technology a student could have, but there were rules about exposing other students. Even outside of school. Yes, girls were expelled, such as for having coed parties and inviting girls from school. The school did help them find and get into other schools that would be a better fit.

And yes, maybe those "good girls" still talked to the "bad influence" and maybe they were resentful, but if you're not in school with them all the time, it ends up being a lot less. Without exposure to the poison, healing can occur.

amother

Red

Thu, Mar 30 2023, 12:29 pm

amother Viola wrote:

There were other Orthodox schools in your community that accepted girls expelled from the community school? If so, then I don't think we are using the term "community school" in the same way.

amother

Viola

Thu, Mar 30 2023, 12:44 pm

amother Red wrote:

There were other Orthodox schools in your community that accepted girls expelled from the community school? If so, then I don't think we are using the term "community school" in the same way.

There was one 50 mins away with a bus/van, and 2 local coed, more left modox schools.
Yes, it was a community school run by right wing with a huge mix of students.