Real growth? | Imamother

amother

Whitewash

Fri, Apr 21 2023, 3:45 pm

This obituary of Rebbetzin Ausband of Yavne in Cleveland is beautifully written and may help you understand more OP.

https://www.tabletmag.com/sect.....sband

As well as the recent Mishpacha tribute to Rebbetzin David: https://mishpacha.com/one-final-havdalah/

More broadly (not specifically seminary), Rav Malkiel Kotler speaks here about the importance of women developing textual skills when younger for a lifelong connection to Hashem: vimeo.com/351448203

Start at 1:11:50 for the question and then Rav Kotler's response.

amother

Steel

Fri, Apr 21 2023, 4:34 pm

I don't think my dd grew as a person. What she grew was apart--from her parents. When she came back she was practically a stranger and had as little as possible to do with us as she could while still living under the same roof. It took many years for her to start showing any interest in spending any time with us.

amother

Fri, Apr 21 2023, 4:36 pm

amother Steel wrote:

Something tells me I know where dd went to. If I'm correct, the principal does this a lot to girls

amother

Fri, Apr 21 2023, 4:39 pm

amother Starflower wrote:

yes, changed my life. didn't used to dress tznius, didn't Daven, had social media. Im now a kollel wife living in E"Y, flip phone etc. baruch Hashem I am so happy I went to seminary!

Thats why I said theres exeptions.
I'm talking about girls who were typical bais yaakov girls

amother

Lightpink

Fri, Apr 21 2023, 4:42 pm

amother OP wrote:

So you think that a 40 yr old women will be different if she had gone to seminary. Really? It does enough long term? I'm not referring to someone a few months after seminary

Yes. Good hashkafos are for life not just for a few months. I definitely feel it’s a worthwhile investment for life.

amother

Lightpink

Fri, Apr 21 2023, 4:43 pm

amother Steel wrote:

This is awful! Definitely not the goal of seminary! Was your relationship good before she left and throughout her childhood? There must be more to this!

amother

Burlywood

Fri, Apr 21 2023, 4:44 pm

People grow by default which is why I never understood the term "age is just a number". If you're a human being, every year you're experiencing life on this earth is going to make you a little older and a little wiser than the year before.

This whole "growth" that seminaries and high schools throw around...I'm not sure about it. I think leaving home makes a child grow into more of an adult, whether it's seminary or anywhere else.

My daughter is in seminary this year. She started wearing stockings in the summer. She has deleted her social media and no longer watches movies or YouTube. Some people might call that growth...to me I'm just worried she's being brainwashed. Has she grown in other aspects? She's always been kind and caring and wonderful bh.

To answer your question, I don't really know. I will send my second daughter only because all their friends go. And because I think leaving home is good for 17/18 year olds. Seminary is basically a very expensive way to be somewhat independent for a year.

amother

Antiquewhite

Fri, Apr 21 2023, 4:46 pm

amother OP wrote:

So you think that a 40 yr old women will be different if she had gone to seminary. Really? It does enough long term? I'm not referring to someone a few months after seminary

Nope.
Looking back to myself, and my group of friends.
Immediately after, yes, you could see change. A bunch frummed out, cut their hair shorter, davened mincha every day etc.
Now about 15 years later, puh leeeeeeeaz we all gradually dropped the frummed out sem version and have reverted to our true identities again.
We're all in touch and you can see it plain as day.
What really affects you long term is the gradual lessons and growth you receive from grades 1 through 12. Not 9 months of intensity.

amother

Antiquewhite

Fri, Apr 21 2023, 4:53 pm

amother Lightpink wrote:

This is awful! Definitely not the goal of seminary! Was your relationship good before she left and throughout her childhood? There must be more to this!

There does not have to be more to this.
Ive heard this before.
Many many teachers in seminary, through their lessons, give over a subtle message that the parents may be on a lower spiritual plane than the girls when they come home...tons and tons of talk about "how to handle" coming home on such a ruchniusdik level when everyone else is "focused on gashmiyus", how to handle family, how to stay strong in your new madreigah....it happens a lot, with lots of examples, over and over, for the second half of the year.
it sounds beautiful and uplifting to the girls but what that inspirational lesson is really doing is covertly hinting to the girls that really their parents, who may have been their closest support system and advisers, may actually not be quite as amazing as they always thought. That theyre really on a lower madreigah, steeped in chutz laaretz shmutz, and not advisable to truly listen to. That lesson seeps in and the girl who used to sit and shmooze with her mommy and abba, and listened to their advice etc will now shut them and their less than holy wisdom out, and instead turn to her seminary teachers and friends instead.

amother

Mint

Fri, Apr 21 2023, 4:57 pm

amother Antiquewhite wrote:

Agree. I actually hold back from shidduch suggestions for girls who have just recently finished sem. They are not grounded and they change within months. I don't think its fair to the boy to do a shidduch when there's a strong chance the kallah will go through significant changes shortly.

You cannot tell a difference between a 30 year old who went to seminary from those who didnt. People who credit seminary with their growth often overlook that the large majority undergoes significant growth once they leave school. It's a normal part of development. There's an equally good chance they would have grown without seminary. It's part of the maturing process when you leave childhood and enter adulthood.

little neshamala

Fri, Apr 21 2023, 5:00 pm

amother Mint wrote:

You cannot tell a difference between a 30 year old who went to seminary from those who didnt. People who credit seminary with their growth often overlook that the large majority undergoes significant growth once they leave school. It's a normal part of development. There's an equally good chance they would have grown without seminary. It's part of the maturing process when you leave childhood and enter adulthood.

I agree

amother

Crocus

Fri, Apr 21 2023, 5:01 pm

amother Antiquewhite wrote:

This was exactly my experience. I find it deeply disturbing that the seminary was quite happy to take parents money for the tuition and then had all the put downs. It took a long time to get back to who I really was. It wasn't only directed to parents. It was overall chutz laaretz which was ridiculous because they financed their oh so holy lifestyles on the backs of those they denigrated. I think its very hard to expect a young girl to have the critical thinking skills and emotional maturity to stand up to this. What u posted is not an exaggeration at all.