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amother
OP


 

Post Tue, May 16 2023, 11:53 pm
Are there any medium to large Jewish communities outside the tristate area that have a Miami or LA community feel (types of people/schools) with more affordable housing ideally in a pretty area?
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amother
Tan


 

Post Wed, May 17 2023, 8:59 am
Large:
Baltimore
Chicago
Cleveland
Detroit

Medium:
Pittsburgh
Cincinnati
Silver Spring
Atlanta
Dallas
Houston
Milwaukee
Phoenix
Las Vegas
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amother
OP


 

Post Wed, May 17 2023, 3:46 pm
Thank you!
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amother
Whitesmoke


 

Post Wed, May 17 2023, 4:16 pm
Which of these communities are affordable?
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mha3484




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 17 2023, 4:16 pm
How do you define affordable?
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amother
Stonewash


 

Post Wed, May 17 2023, 4:29 pm
amother Tan wrote:
Large:
Baltimore
Chicago
Cleveland
Detroit

Medium:
Pittsburgh
Cincinnati
Silver Spring
Atlanta
Dallas
Houston
Milwaukee
Phoenix
Las Vegas


I heard such nice things about these communities... hatzlacha we live in the tri state area jobs and family keeping us here.
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amother
Fuchsia


 

Post Wed, May 17 2023, 4:43 pm
Either I’m not understanding what you mean by a “Miami or LA Feel” or I vehemently disagree with the above posters cities. I have lived in both Cleveland and Detroit and NEITHER are large communities that are comparable to Miami or LA. Detroit has one kosher store , one bakery (that close by 3pm) one dairy restaurant (that closes by 3pm) one nice sit down meat restaurant, 2 meat take-out places (very limited menu and close by 8pm). There’s one pizza shop that also takes orders to 7:30pm. It’s extremely limited in food options, virtually no recreational or entertainment options, and very few places to go with children. The community has no more than 400-500 families… Cleveland is similar but a bit larger, but not by that much. Housing is more affordable in Cleveland and Detroit but definitely aren’t comparable to Miami or LA in terms of size, weather, food, school options , recreational options or conveniences you maybe accustomed to (like grocery delivery).

Baltimore has larger community, more food and shopping options and more affordable but still wouldn’t say it’s large or comparable to LA or Miami. I would put Baltimore in the medium category.

My understanding is that Boca Raton in Florida is exploding and is most likely comparable to what you are looking for. In terms of the weather as well!
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amother
Taupe


 

Post Wed, May 17 2023, 4:47 pm
amother Fuchsia wrote:
Either I’m not understanding what you mean by a “Miami or LA Feel” or I vehemently disagree with the above posters cities. I have lived in both Cleveland and Detroit and NEITHER are large communities that are comparable to Miami or LA. Detroit has one kosher store , one bakery (that close by 3pm) one dairy restaurant (that closes by 3pm) one nice sit down meat restaurant, 2 meat take-out places (very limited menu and close by 8pm). There’s one pizza shop that also takes orders to 7:30pm. It’s extremely limited in food options, virtually no recreational or entertainment options, and very few places to go with children. The community has no more than 400-500 families… Cleveland is similar but a bit larger, but not by that much. Housing is more affordable in Cleveland and Detroit but definitely aren’t comparable to Miami or LA in terms of size, weather, food and recreational options.

Baltimore has larger community, more food and shopping options and more affordable but still wouldn’t say it’s large or comparable to LA or Miami. I would put Baltimore in the medium category.

My understanding is that Boca Raton in Florida is exploding and is most likely comparable to what you are looking for. In terms of the weather as well!

And in Baltimore, even the not frum stores close by 9Pm! Literally nothing to do at night. Don’t bother coming here for the social life. Houses are still affordable, you can get a house for about a half million or less. Duplexes are in the threes. But the better neighborhoods are more expensive, like sevens and eights unless it needs work. No vouchers. New Democratic Governor who wants to give everything to the suffering poor and public schools. We have to fight for everything.
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mha3484




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 17 2023, 4:48 pm
I live in Chicago and I can see the comparisons but I feel like its becoming less and less mixed. I feel like in Florida the schools have a bigger spectrum. Chicago has gotten increasingly self segregated. I am super happy here. Its a wonderful community and for me just the right level of yeshivish. Also my kids with different learning needs are very well served here and I don't think they would be in Baltimore, Ohio or Florida. That's a big consideration. I dont know enough about detroit.
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amother
DarkYellow


 

Post Wed, May 17 2023, 5:18 pm
amother Taupe wrote:
And in Baltimore, even the not frum stores close by 9Pm! Literally nothing to do at night. Don’t bother coming here for the social life. Houses are still affordable, you can get a house for about a half million or less. Duplexes are in the threes. But the better neighborhoods are more expensive, like sevens and eights unless it needs work. No vouchers. New Democratic Governor who wants to give everything to the suffering poor and public schools. We have to fight for everything.


True Baltimore's not a night town but between simchas, fundraisers, grocery shopping, the basement stores only open at night, picking up kids from school events, driving boys to/from bar mitzvahs, 10 pm mesivta carpools...... who in the world has time for more? I'm already dizzy from my schedule! I don't know where I would find time to do more at night! But ya it's frustrating when you realize at 1 am that you're out of milk for the morning. B'H for Golden flow non perishable milk that lasts for months. If you live in Baltimore keep in in stock!
And there are advantages to places closing early- my teens hang out at our house or their friends and not at food establishments and who knows where that I wouldn't want my kids to necessarily be at at night because these places can become "hang outs". Just check out some places that have a night life and you'll know what I mean. And houses are pretty much at the same market value as the other places. LA and Miami are higher priced.
A lot of frum families benefit from Boost. You need to be under a certain income level but according to one of the schools more than half are eligible- it's not as hard as you think to qualify.
The frum delegates have accomplished so much. They had to fight at first but they've won so many battles. B'H we have frum politicians advocating for us! When we speak up and have a voice, the government tends to accommodate. I haven't found them to be anti us like in other places. Bussing is coming, something that the frum delegates fought for and won.
For numbers of frum families I would rank Baltimore as large. Definitely compared to Chicago, Detroit, Miami or Cleveland, not as familiar with LA. In terms of number of restaurants, less than Miami and I would think LA but more than the others. Schools, shuls, frum clothing shopping. other frum essential shopping for sure more than the others except again LA I don't know anyone there.
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amother
Ebony


 

Post Wed, May 17 2023, 5:53 pm
amother DarkYellow wrote:
True Baltimore's not a night town but between simchas, fundraisers, grocery shopping, the basement stores only open at night, picking up kids from school events, driving boys to/from bar mitzvahs, 10 pm mesivta carpools...... who in the world has time for more? I'm already dizzy from my schedule! I don't know where I would find time to do more at night! But ya it's frustrating when you realize at 1 am that you're out of milk for the morning. B'H for Golden flow non perishable milk that lasts for months. If you live in Baltimore keep in in stock!
And there are advantages to places closing early- my teens hang out at our house or their friends and not at food establishments and who knows where that I wouldn't want my kids to necessarily be at at night because these places can become "hang outs". Just check out some places that have a night life and you'll know what I mean. And houses are pretty much at the same market value as the other places. LA and Miami are higher priced.
A lot of frum families benefit from Boost. You need to be under a certain income level but according to one of the schools more than half are eligible- it's not as hard as you think to qualify.
The frum delegates have accomplished so much. They had to fight at first but they've won so many battles. B'H we have frum politicians advocating for us! When we speak up and have a voice, the government tends to accommodate. I haven't found them to be anti us like in other places. Bussing is coming, something that the frum delegates fought for and won.
For numbers of frum families I would rank Baltimore as large. Definitely compared to Chicago, Detroit, Miami or Cleveland, not as familiar with LA. In terms of number of restaurants, less than Miami and I would think LA but more than the others. Schools, shuls, frum clothing shopping. other frum essential shopping for sure more than the others except again LA I don't know anyone there.


Don’t mean to derail the thread, but bussing isn’t definitely coming. And the lack of bussing is a big chisaron to baltimore.
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amother
Geranium


 

Post Wed, May 17 2023, 6:06 pm
I’m from Baltimore originally and live in Lakewood for the past 10 years. Baltimore is not a medium oot city. It’s larger than Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, and even LA in terms of people. The schools are way bigger and the community has so many more people
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amother
Lightblue


 

Post Wed, May 17 2023, 6:19 pm
amother Geranium wrote:
I’m from Baltimore originally and live in Lakewood for the past 10 years. Baltimore is not a medium oot city. It’s larger than Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, and even LA in terms of people. The schools are way bigger and the community has so many more people


Baltimore is NOT bigger than LA. Not at all. The LA frum community includes pico, LA Brea, Hancock Park, the valley, Tarzana, Beverly hills... and constantly expanding. we all travel from one to the other. Kids go to schools across town. I have friends in Tarzana that go to school in LA Brea. Friends in LA Brea that go to Pico for school. We do Pico to La Brea. We have way more restaurants, frum stores, kosher markets, shuls... we have a growing number of schools too.
How many pizza stores does Baltimore have? Mama Leah and Tov and...? I can't even count all the ones we have. I can list 8 without trying. And I don't know the ones in the valley.
Outside the Tri State Area, LA is the next largest community. Larger than Chicago and Baltimore.
I have spent a lot of time in other cities...
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amother
Geranium


 

Post Wed, May 17 2023, 6:29 pm
amother Lightblue wrote:
Baltimore is NOT bigger than LA. Not at all. The LA frum community includes pico, LA Brea, Hancock Park, the valley, Tarzana, Beverly hills... and constantly expanding. we all travel from one to the other. Kids go to schools across town. I have friends in Tarzana that go to school in LA Brea. Friends in LA Brea that go to Pico for school. We do Pico to La Brea. We have way more restaurants, frum stores, kosher markets, shuls... we have a growing number of schools too.
How many pizza stores does Baltimore have? Mama Leah and Tov and...? I can't even count all the ones we have. I can list 8 without trying. And I don't know the ones in the valley.
Outside the Tri State Area, LA is the next largest community. Larger than Chicago and Baltimore.
I have spent a lot of time in other cities...


I honestly don’t know, but pizza stores don’t prove anything. Baltimore is a poor community that doesn’t support its own businesses, whereas LA is a wealthy community and in addition is a tourist attraction.
I would go more on population. The Baltimore girls schools have 9 parallel classes in the two mainstream school. I could be wrong, LA may have a larger population,I’ve been out of that community for many years and I’ve only been to LA once (although I have countless friends from LA)
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amother
Lotus


 

Post Wed, May 17 2023, 6:40 pm
Was going to say, in population numbers alone, Baltimore has more frum people than L.A., however, as Baltimore is a much less affluent community there are much fewer eateries and restaurants as it simply can't support that many. You don't have the same numbers of people eating out on a regular basis. (That said, last time I was in Baltimore, I think there were 4 or maybe 5 pizza shops? Besides the ones mentioned, didn't one open up in the Greenspring shopping area, plus Caramel's and maybe the eatery at the JCC if it's still around? ) So, it depends on how you are looking at community size. Baltimore is also not that spread out, most frum areas are closely concentrated together nearby each other. It had the L.A./Miami vibe in that there is a lot of diversity within the frum population and people interacting with those from different backgrounds, but otherwise it is a more small oot vibe.
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amother
Oak


 

Post Wed, May 17 2023, 6:42 pm
LA is a much wealthier community than Baltimore. Housing is extremely expensive compared to Baltimore and compared to most other frum communities in North America. That gives it a different vibe. In terms of population maybe someone can weigh in with actual numbers. If we have no numbers a better indicator of size than pizza shops and restaurants might be number of shuls, yeshivas and girls schools, class size and number of classes per grade.
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amother
Jasmine


 

Post Wed, May 17 2023, 6:43 pm
Baltimore is a huge community. It cannot be considered "medium" in terms of population.
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amother
Whitesmoke


 

Post Wed, May 17 2023, 7:12 pm
mha3484 wrote:
How do you define affordable?


I’m thinking housing under 850K

What are the communities in Denver, Memphis and Houston like?
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amother
Obsidian


 

Post Wed, May 17 2023, 7:25 pm
In terms of the number of Jewish people living in each state, the following ten states come out on top: New York (1.77 million), California (1.19 million), Florida (657,095), New Jersey (546,950), Pennsylvania (434,165), Illinois (297,735), Massachusetts (293,080), Maryland (238,600), Texas (176,000), and Ohio (151,615).

https://worldpopulationreview......state


South Florida and LA each have around 550,000 Jews. The entire state of New Jersey has about the same. None of the other communities in the USA are as big.
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doctorima




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, May 17 2023, 7:34 pm
amother Whitesmoke wrote:
I’m thinking housing under 850K

What are the communities in Denver, Memphis and Houston like?


Memphis is really small. Houston is a beautiful and growing community. You can find housing for under 850k, but housing options there are definitely limited due to high demand. Denver is an established community with all the basics, but for some reason it hasn't taken off as much as Dallas and Houston and some other OOT places.
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