Why the condescension regarding natural health?

InnerMe

Tue, May 23 2023, 9:59 am

I'd like to try to understand.

I have a nuanced view of medicine and alternative medicine. I use both as needed.

Why will Imas be here so condescending regarding natural medicine? I don't try to impose my opinion on people who are strictly medical. Why do you need to impose yours?

In addition, I occasionally see the refrain how in people are "ignorant and uneducated" when they use natural medicine. And the interesting thing is that mainstream medicine is so much easier to be uneducated about, it's the default. That's what the majority does - so if I'd like to learn about more options and understand better a medical concern I have, then I need to do that learning on my own.

I first wanted to post this anon but figured we'd have a more respectful conversation if it's not anon enabled.

jkl

Tue, May 23 2023, 10:13 am

InnerMe wrote:

Because the stereotypical user is not as nuanced as you. Their attitude generally runs as superior, as only they have the in depth understanding to this exaltedness of natural care, and that anyone not going that route is lacking knowledge and essentially hurting themselves.

I'm with you - both have a place in the medicine world, but one doesn't upend the other.

jerusalem90

Tue, May 23 2023, 10:22 am

Alternative Health is a huge umbrella. It can be stuff like homeopathy but also can be stuff like Swim Therapy (true story -- I almost didn't date a man because he wrote he worked in Alternative Medicine. I imagined homeopathy, which I don't believe in, but I decided to go on a date with him and it turned out he's a Swim Therapist) which I don't think anyone would consider controversial.

A few years ago, I got my Dad signed up for a lot of Alternative stuff from Maccabi's Alternative Medicine clinic. I think he had Japanese massage, some kind of foot massage, and acupuncture. It was like 3 appointments a week, and he'd walk to and from the clinic, which was about a 10 min walk each way. I don't know whether the massages and acupuncture helped him in a non-placebo way, but I know he enjoyed it, it got him out of the house, socializing and walking, so all in all it was very good for him. I don't think a pill could have done that.

PP31419

Tue, May 23 2023, 10:24 am

As a believer in both natural and traditional health it scares me when I read about people attempting to treat real and serious medical issues naturally (without traditional medicine) when there can be dire consequences. Certain conditions needed to be treated right away and when you play around with natural remedies you are playing with fire. Fact is that traditional medicine does have higher success rates and with natural medicine you often need to play around and try different things. If it’s something like tonail fungus then go ahead and throw every natural remedy at it. But when you are telling me that you are burning up with 104 fever and you are pregnant and come here on imamother and ask us for natural remedies I will call you out on it even if it’s the natural forum. You have an obligation of vinishmartem meod and by refusing to take Tylenol and going to a doctor you are being irresponsible and stupid. High fever can kill and unborn baby and if you have fever you may have an infection that needs antibiotics. This has nothing to do with being condescending - it’s the opposite. I care about you and want you to be ok.

honey36

Tue, May 23 2023, 10:30 am

I think people are condescending about it because there is no research backing it.

That said, I'm all for traditional medicine and research, but all too often my doctor will say to me something like "we dont know the cause of this or that and we also don't have a way treating it." In some cases I will say "have you looked into this natural method. I have heard other mothers say it helped". To which he will respond "there is no research about it, so no. Your welcome to try it if you'd like since I don't think it will hurt"

So basically I think the medical community has come a long way with research and whatever, but still has a long way to go, and in the meantime we are left to suffer. That's where I think Natural medicine comes in handy at times.

So I kind of hear both sides.

BH Yom Yom

Tue, May 23 2023, 11:13 am

I think both natural and Western medicine have a lot to offer, but TBH I see more condescension from diehard Western medicine proponents - some doctors in particular, especially when it comes to things like how diet affects health. I’ve been told by some MD’s that “diet has nothing to do with health,” but many doctors also don’t have much (if any) detailed education about nutrition. A friend who is an ER doc said that in all her medical school courses, residency, fellowship, etc. nutrition NEVER came up as a factor in identifying or treating disease.

I know different foods affect my body, and I know I’m not the only one.

There are also many natural remedies available but doctors are quick to prescribe medications. Of course medications can be necessary and are often helpful! But using more and more chemicals to treat symptoms isn’t necessarily going to solve the root of the problem if the issue is caused by something else.

One of our DC has had constant ear infections and after seeing and implementing the recommendations on here to cut out dairy from his diet, his ear infections went away…til DH insisted on giving him dairy again because regular doctors say there’s “no evidence” that dairy can trigger ear infections in some children.

Another example - I had eczema on my lower back for a couple of years - extremely uncomfortable. Tried OTC and prescription meds and the irritation always came back. Finally, at the suggestion of a natural-minded friend I tried using raw ACV with “the mother” on the eczema. It burned like nobody’s business for a few minutes…and I haven’t had eczema since. It’s been about 10 years now BH. The Western medicine doctors I asked said, “There’s no evidence that apple cider vinegar works, you need steroids!” Well, ACV worked for me, when medications didn’t.

Oddly enough, a doctor insisted on prescribing a narcotic to me that my body doesn’t metabolize properly. I declined it and explained I have taken that medication in the past, and it did not work at all. DH did research (he’s into statistics and whatnot) and found that something like 20% of people’s bodies don’t process that class of medications correctly. I don’t need extra narcotics lying around my house. The doctor insisted on prescribing it anyway because “well, that’s what our protocol says to do!” The rigidity of “this is what we prescribe no matter what” made me uncomfortable, and the condescending attitude of “well I’m a doctor, so I know your body better than you do!” was very off-putting.

My impression is that when a lot of Western medical professionals unilaterally declare that there is “no evidence” of something, that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist or doesn’t affect people. “No evidence” often means that no company has been willing to fund a large-scale study on whatever the issue is. I also think people are (especially the past few years because of Covid) extremely defensive when it comes to their preferred approach to health and medicine.

FTR, my (great) GP is a Western medicine-trained doctor who is open to me trying natural remedies for some things. I have no problem asking for advice or treatment options that follow Western medicine protocols (DC is on yet another round of antibiotics for his ear infection). I just don’t like being told that adjusting diet, etc is nonsense—because it’s not.

Newcastle

Tue, May 23 2023, 12:57 pm

jerusalem90 wrote:

I find it so interesting that you signed up your father for this, when you would not have dated a guy who does homeopathy.

mazal555

Tue, May 23 2023, 1:19 pm

honey36 wrote:

That's just not true. There are many, many studies on Chinese medicine techniques, on various herbs and more and many of these things are proven to work in rigorous studies. Some outperform western solutions (for example ashwaganda and rhodiola outperformed ozempic in studies)

Also western medicine tends to have one method. If you're allergic to that method or it didn't work for you, what then? You just give up and die?

jerusalem90

Tue, May 23 2023, 1:27 pm

Newcastle wrote:

I find it so interesting that you signed up your father for this, when you would not have dated a guy who does homeopathy.

Massage feels good, whether or not it helps medically. All of these treatments were subsudized by Maccabi, so it was a lot cheaper than paying for private massage. And like I said, my dad got out of the house to walk there, and would talk to the person doing the massage/acupuncture so it had social value.

He would never agree to (psychological) therapy, and I did get him to agree to art class and language class for senior citizens but he quit both after 1 lesson. I think he never liked school and those classes reminded him too much of school, while the Alternative Medicine stuff was more of someone doing a service to him.

InnerMe

Tue, May 23 2023, 1:27 pm

BH Yom Yom wrote:

I love your post. This is the kind of nuance I'm talking about.

pause

Tue, May 23 2023, 1:37 pm

PP31419 wrote:

See, this post right here is the problem. You think that a fever of 104 in a pregnant woman must be treated with Tylenol because that's how Western medicine has taught. However, there are many other successful ways of bringing down a fever. Should this woman see her doctor? I agree with you that she should. But she isn't being irresponsible and stupid if she prefers to avoid a Class B medication.

InnerMe

Tue, May 23 2023, 1:40 pm

PP31419 wrote:

I hear what you're saying, I'm wondering if it's actually effective. I'm thinking about it.