IDGI! Why are we teaching our kids Fakery?!

amother

Ecru

Tue, May 23 2023, 11:38 pm

amother Winterberry wrote:

Same. BH.
They tell us all internet devices should be filtered, and thats it.

Don’t worry. That will change.all the schools (at last in Lakewod) are making everyone go get their phones and devices filtered and you need some sort of signed document from the place that does the filters in order to get your registration.

Trust me it’s coming to all the schools. In due time.

amother

Wed, May 24 2023, 12:23 am

amother Ecru wrote:

It happened gradually at my dd school. They slowly but surely started banning smartphones on premises.

amother

Wed, May 24 2023, 12:25 am

amother Rose wrote:

"]There is a big difference between a tablet and smartphone
If there wasnt why x just have a tablet?

Because I think it's wrong to teach kids that we have a flip phone on the street and a tablet at home. What in heavens name is the chinuch benefit there?!
Mind you, I should get one. It's probably way easier to be online on a bigger screen...

mommy3b2c

Wed, May 24 2023, 7:30 am

amother Gray wrote:

I have a not frum friend who sends to an expensive waldorf school. Not only are all phones banned on campus, there are plenty of families that will not allow play dates if you use a smartphone openly. Using a tablet in the privacy of your bedroom or late at night is a different story.

Just saying that we are not all that unique.

This is BS. The only thing I can believe is that students are bot allowed to take any phones on campus .

the world's best mom

Wed, May 24 2023, 7:35 am

amother Ecru wrote:

Kol hakavod to them. Not sure why you are warning us as if it's a bad thing.

amother

Aster

Wed, May 24 2023, 7:50 am

amother Gray wrote:

Waldorf schools are cult-y, so this makes sense.

amother

Aqua

Wed, May 24 2023, 9:09 am

amother OP wrote:

Mosdos who are banning smartphones and only allowing flip phones and tablets...
Why are tablets better than smartphones? And if you tell me they are not as often used or only kept at home, I have a bridge to sell you!
And what bothers me the most-we are teaching our kids to have a flip phone on the outside and smartphone/tablet at home.
If that is not fakery, what is?

It gets me so angry!
I have a filtered smartphone. My daughter's school just decided to hop on the bandwagon and ban smartphones on school premises. She recently had a performance and I had to borrow a flip phone for the event.

What are we teaching our children??

The ship has long sailed. Smartphones are here to stay.
Create guidelines with that in mind.

They're stuck in a very tough spot. Going that route now would be admitting they were wrong. That all the fire and brimstones attitudes was just a bunch of hyperbole. So instead, they're digging themselves deeper and deeper into this hole. What they don't realize is that it will eventually all come crashing down on them. Their attitude is unsustainable, unless they want us to lock ourselves away like the Amish. Tech is being integrated everywhere and the controls are being placed onto smartphones. Whether it's banking, medical interactions, home setting controls, appliance controls, doorbells, security features, business interactions - all require you to have a phone easily accessible with you. It's the way of the world, and everything is being built with this framework. Give it another few years, and it will be impossible to navigate without having a device nearby.

They're undercutting the essence of our society with such unrealistic guidelines. When all this is set and done, the distrust in our Rabbonim, the disconnect between the leaders and people, will be in a very bad place and it will carry over in other areas of yiddishkeit. This needs to be stopped looking at in a vacuum and the overall big picture needs to be addressed.

amother

Aqua

Wed, May 24 2023, 9:16 am

the world's best mom wrote:

Kol hakavod to them. Not sure why you are warning us as if it's a bad thing.

Because it is a bad thing. Schools aren't our policemen. They're job is not to enforce parental behaviors. Do we need to report what hechshers we bring into our house, or how we're carrying out other tasks in yiddishkeit to them as well? Since when is it a school's job to police society? Their job is to focus on the kids, not parents. They're very well within their rights to enforce that kids' access should be restricted and filtered, but they're stepping well out of their bounds by enforcing stuff on parents.

It makes no sense anyways. What's stopping a parent from having 2 devices, a filtered one for school purposes, and a personal one that meets their needs. The fact that the school is oblivious to this basic common sense fact, just speaks further to their heads stuck in the sand attitude. It's just a means of control, and power with no actual way of enforcement. What are they going to do - hire PIs to start investigating parents how many devices they actually have? Are they going to send down mashgichim to people's homes and businesses? They're putting themselves in the position where people are just working around them, instead of working with them.

mha3484

Wed, May 24 2023, 10:15 am

chili-n-cholent wrote:

Wow that sounds so normal! It's impressive!
Is this a high school or elementary school as the only interesting thing to me was the no phones for students rule.

Nursery-8th. I have friends in more left wing schools that feel a lot of pressure to get their kids phones in middle school so to me its normal to say no phones for kids.

mha3484

Wed, May 24 2023, 10:16 am

amother Ecru wrote:

When the menahel of my boys school gives up his iphone I will give up mine but I dont see that happening any time soon.

amother

RosePink

Wed, May 24 2023, 10:23 am

amother Aqua wrote:

It makes no sense anyways. What's stopping a parent from having 2 devices, a filtered one for school purposes, and a personal one that meets their needs.

I agree with most of your post wholeheartedly. On this minor point, it appears that some schools monitor activity levels and will call out parents whose filtered devices show insufficient daily activity, thereby indicating that they are not the parents' real main device.

Sadly, the same technology that gives so much access makes remote monitoring and control much easier also. Imagine, for example, requiring parents to give schools access to their Alexa or similar home devices, such that the school could have on-demand audio access to what is happening in the home. Or installing technology in the filters that allows the filtering company to turn on the phone or computer's microphone or even camera at will.

Sounds crazy now, I hope it won't ever come to that.

Edit - regarding activity level monitoring, I've only heard about that on imamother, so take with a grain of salt. It's not something I have any personal experience with.

amother

Orchid

Wed, May 24 2023, 11:06 am

Having a tablet is not the same as a smartphone because like one poster said of the accessibility. The device that you speak on should ideally not have internet and app access. It makes a person think about using it more in public and is somewhat of a miniature personal computer that can be used for photos and other things that one may not feel ready to do with out or may need on a less frequent basis (we automatically need it more frequently when it is paired with the device we talk on and can compactly hold in our hand anywhere and everywhere). But it makes a statement in the right direction and is about growth. To dismiss it as worthless to make this differentiation is a disservice to oneself and to everyone reading this. Discuss it with those that are trying to grow in the right direction and listen closely to the different levels and what sets them apart.

the world's best mom

Wed, May 24 2023, 3:19 pm

amother Aqua wrote:

I do hear that argument about them telling parents what to do at home. I've never dealt with a school that did that and it does seem overbearing.

However, if a school were to say they will only accept kids from shomer Shabbos houses, would that bother you?

IOW, there are 2 questions here:

1- Is it okay to have unfiltered internet at home?

and

2- If schools feel it is assur, do they have a right to demand that everyone get a filter?

Another question. You wrote: What's stopping a parent from having 2 devices, a filtered one for school purposes, and a personal one that meets their needs. In what way does a filtered device not meet the parents' needs? What does the average parent need to do on the internet that would not be allowed by any filter?

amother

DarkGray

Wed, May 24 2023, 3:31 pm

the world's best mom wrote:

However, if a school were to say they will only accept kids from shomer Shabbos houses, would that bother you?

Yes. My (oot) BY had a few girls from families that were not shomer Shabbos. The local boys' school did, too. Most of these students grew up to become fully shomer shabbos and frum. A few did not. However, they deserved to get a Jewish education just as much as those who were born into frum families. And you never know what will happen further down the line.
(And no, they did not adversely affect their classmates.)

amother

Aqua

Wed, May 24 2023, 4:50 pm

the world's best mom wrote:

The two questions are not the school concerns. There concern should be limited to the children not having access to unfiltered internet. Other than that the school has no right to ask of anything else.

Do the schools come check up on you and demand proof as to what books you bring in the house, what hecsher you eat or what places you visit. Do they come to check up on you if you're fulfilling shabbos requirements, taharas hamishpacha as per their definitions? They are overstepping boundaries big time in trying to police adults for anything.

There are plenty of ways filters impede necessary internet stuff. One priority example is medical info. I thought a critical aspect of chinuch is that when we reach adulthood we should have the appropriate tools to make the right decisions. If our leaders and schools don't trust the parents that means our chinuch method is an outright failure. If there is need to treat adults like children and check up on them, then we need to overhaul our entire system. What good is a system that has such poor results, that it creates untrustworthy, immature adults who can't be trusted to do the right thing

the world's best mom

Wed, May 24 2023, 6:41 pm

I'm confused. First you said:

amother Aqua wrote:

And then you said:

amother Aqua wrote:

There are plenty of ways filters impede necessary internet stuff. One priority example is medical info.

So you think the school should make sure the kids have no access to unfiltered internet, but that you should have unfiltered internet at home in case you ever have to look up medical information that for some reason you think the filter will block?

amother Aqua wrote:

I thought a critical aspect of chinuch is that when we reach adulthood we should have the appropriate tools to make the right decisions. If our leaders and schools don't trust the parents that means our chinuch method is an outright failure. If there is need to treat adults like children and check up on them, then we need to overhaul our entire system. What good is a system that has such poor results, that it creates untrustworthy, immature adults who can't be trusted to do the right thing.

What right decisions are you referring to? They should trust you to get a filter? Or they should trust you to keep your kids protected without a filter?

amother

Aqua

Wed, May 24 2023, 7:02 pm

the world's best mom wrote:

I'm confused. First you said: What right decisions are you referring to? They should trust you to get a filter? Or they should trust you to keep your kids protected without a filter?

I don't know what you're confused about. I can make sure that my kids don't have access to unfiltered internet while I myself have a different setup on my personal device. What's so hard to understand about that. My children are well trained in knowing whats off limits to them and would never touch my device without permission. Never mind that its both biometrically and password protected as well for extra security.

The school need to trust that parents will do the right thing - whatever that is for their situation. As long as parents abide by the rules set for their children, the schools have no business micromanaging adult lives.

I dont understand your position. Are you essentially saying that parents can't be trusted to do right and make right choices without being supervised and micromanaged by others? Is that your view of adults? Are you really thinking that parents don't want to protect their own kids and will only do so if someone forces them to?