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Laiya
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 Wed, May 31 2023, 8:50 am
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I'm sorry if this is an obvious question, OP. When you talk to them, do you maintain full eye contact, with your face fairly close to theirs? Maybe also a hand on dc's shoulder and address them by name first until they look at you. That might require you to get down on 2 knees to be eye level.
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imasinger
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Wed, May 31 2023, 9:58 am
| amother OP wrote: | | Listen, every situation is different. This thread was not meant to be an in depth discussion and analysis of everything that goes on in my marriage (that would take a book) or deciding whether I should get divorced, which is something better discussed with my therapists and mentors anyway. This is a small part of the picture that I was hoping for some insight and input on. Thank you. |
One piece you might take away from this thread:
You started off by asking if your young children's behavior might be connected to the behavior they see from your DH.
Perhaps the response would have been different if that hadn't been your first assumption.
Whether your marriage continues or ends, it will still be important to separate your emotional reaction to the kids from your emotional reaction to DH. When in doubt, assume no connection, and let that be your starting point. You can revise if necessary.
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Cheiny
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Wed, May 31 2023, 4:25 pm
| amother OP wrote: | How much ignoring is normal? I have severe shalom bayis issues with dh. Lots of history and water under the bridge there. In general, he basically ignores most of what I say. If I make a comment or question to the room in general, he'll completely ignore me. If I speak to him directly, he will usually ignore me or blow me off, and maybe answer me passive aggressively after a few times. Often he'll imply that I have no right to make the question or comment in the first place.
I see my littler ones ignoring me a lot, specifically my 4 and 7 year olds. I often say things like "we don't ignore a mommy" or "we have to answer a mommy right away" but they still do it. It is the most frustrating thing, it feels like the power to parent has been taken away from me. Is it normal for kids to ignore to some degree, or is this coming completely from following their father's example? And how can I deal with it?
This thread would really belong in a safe haven / sub forum for women who choose to stay with abusive or checked out spouses by choice, if such a forum would exist, so please respond accordingly. |
Of course it’s because they’ve learned from your husband (not going to call him a dh, sorry but I don’t think he deserves it). But you’re asking the wrong questions. Your first priority must be getting your husband and yourself into marriage counseling and addressing his disrespect and unacceptable behavior towards you. He should be told and shown how his kids have already adopted his terrible behavior and this is how they will likely treat their own spouses, having learned from their parents that this is how one spouse treats the other.
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Cheiny
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Wed, May 31 2023, 4:29 pm
| amother OP wrote: | | So to clarify, we have gone for counseling many times and I myself am in therapy. Our marriage has ups and downs. I'm not going to go into the entire picture here, but the upshot is that it makes sense to stay. I would really appreciate not being judged for not breaking up my family. I wanted to know if the ignoring is to some degree normal, and either way, what I can do about it on my own. |
The fact that you are considering that it could be normal, shows the abuse you’re suffering through has affected your clarity.
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Cheiny
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Wed, May 31 2023, 4:31 pm
| amother Ballota wrote: | Maybe your DH feels you're too controlling or asking for too much help.
He's might act passive aggressive because he feels fed up with your behaviors or requests from him. Could that be a possibility? |
Strange how there’s always someone who thinks it might be helpful to blame the victim.
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Cheiny
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Wed, May 31 2023, 4:34 pm
| imasinger wrote: | One piece you might take away from this thread:
You started off by asking if your young children's behavior might be connected to the behavior they see from your DH.
Perhaps the response would have been different if that hadn't been your first assumption.
Whether your marriage continues or ends, it will still be important to separate your emotional reaction to the kids from your emotional reaction to DH. When in doubt, assume no connection, and let that be your starting point. You can revise if necessary. |
How does one NOT make a connection between the children’s treatment of their mother, and how they’ve seen their father behave towards their mother?
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thegiver
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Wed, May 31 2023, 9:00 pm
I have children who ignore me consistently and my husband listens to everything I say even when it's inconvenient for him (exaggerating a little). They obey his every word. It's how Hashem created children with natural fear of the father. Happens to all my friends. Also he sees them less so they are more in tune with the sound of his voice. (My voice they have learned to tune out). Because he follows thru. He is in their face. He doesn't give commands that he doesn't follow thru with. He weighs before he opens his mouth whether it's worth the struggle of telling them something to begin with. He bribes. He waits until he has leverage.
I find saying things with a smile in their face and not begging helped me. Not repeating requests like a broken record. Also singing my requests was super helpful!! A special song for going out the door, another one for putting on seatbelts. Another song for bedtime. Touch with a song is a sureebest foolproof successful method. Make sure it's a tune they like.
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amother
Strawberry
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Wed, May 31 2023, 9:25 pm
| amother OP wrote: |
None of his toxic attitude would be different if we were divorced, and at least this way there is some bit of teamwork, and he can't trash talk me to the kids all the time because most of the time I'm around. |
Op, it's abusive to your kids to see their father treating their mother like this. Your children are experiencing trauma. It's quite common in these situations for kids to blame the "normal" parent instead of the more messed up one, because they realise that their crazy parent is just nuts but they think that at least the normal parent could have saved them. (That doesn't mean that the normal-appearing parent wasn't frozen in their own trauma and torn about what to do, but children don't always see that nuance. They see a parent staying with a spouse at the expense of the kids to avoid the discomfort of a divorce.)
I wonder what value it is that he can't "trash talk" you when you're around but he can treat you like actual trash in front of the kids. The reality is that if you were separated and you're the primary caregiver, they'd probably be with you much more than with him. Assuming you're not actually the issue, most of their time could be in a calm, non-abusive environment, without the tension they're experiencing. If you start document his contributions to the kids while you're still together, you may have an even stronger case for this. He might not even want major amounts of custody if he has to have them and care for them by himself.
I know you just want band-aid solutions for how your kids are behaving right now instead of anyone addressing the main issue, but from an outsider's perspective, the band-aid solution is no solution at all. What does your therapist say about this issue with your kids?
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thegiver
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Wed, May 31 2023, 9:41 pm
There's a book called Spare the child that details how to create consequences that work!
Bribes are always better than punishments in getting them to listen
Last edited by thegiver on Wed, May 31 2023, 10:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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thegiver
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Wed, May 31 2023, 10:00 pm
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Do you listen to what they have to say and give plenty of validation? Do you have a good relationship with them? Do most of your interactions stay positive (80% rule)? Make a checklist of these things and having special time with them daily. I did that and saw their behavior improve drastically!! Not sure they listen all the time but totally an improvement. They still tune me out here and there. Especially when I'm talking to them from far away. Don't talk to them while they're in the middle of something. Wait for the right moment. Even sit beside them so u can catch the right moment (do we ever do that?!? Just sit and wait! )
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LovesHashem
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Wed, May 31 2023, 11:13 pm
| amother OP wrote: | | Of course! It's not just a possibility, that's exactly how he feels. He wants me to deal with everything that needs to get done, every crisis, every decision, every problem, while he sits around all day on his phone. Any expectations at all that I have of him to contribute are excessive according to him. |
Sounds like he wouldn't really want custody anyway. He will probably teach the kids to act that way too and have their mom do everything for them because that's her job
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