camp--necessity or luxury

yo'ma

Sun, Jul 06 2008, 9:27 pm

Let me start off by saying, to each his own. Everyone can do what they want and it's none of my business.

Okay, now that I got that out of the way. Pesach time, there were a lot of heated discussions about going away to a hotel for pesach. I personally went b/c we went with my il's and didn't have much of a choice, but I'd prefer to stay home. Some pple mentioned about spending money to go when it could go to better use.
Now that summer is here (for most of you) and pple go away and send their children to camp, is it really necessary? I know some pple work and they have to send their children to camp. When we lived in the states, we didn't send my kids to camp b/c I said it's a luxury, which we couldn't really afford.

Like I said originally, it's none of my business, but thinking about the hotel nonsense and camp, it kind of bugs me. I'm not saying it's the same thing, but isn't camp a luxury? (NOT FOR WORKING MOTHERS)

If I didn't exactly get my point across, I apologize, I'm really bad about expressing myself.

SingALong

Sun, Jul 06 2008, 9:46 pm

do you mean only sleepaway camp or also day camp?
I think that for an entire sumemr kids need some sort of program. my neighbor decided to save $$$ this year and kept her 3 year old son at home and she has a newborn. I can see a difference in his behavior. he doesnt have a whole bunch of riends to play with all day and in the afternoon when everyone comes home he is desperate for company (and can get a little aggressive about it). in such a case, I feel that she should have sent him at least for 1/2 the summer. 2 months is two long for a kid to have no structure. any age.
teenagers should also be kept busy. they have no homework at night so what is there to do all summer if they aren't in camp? they go hang out?
I guess it depends on one's financial situation but I think that kids need structure/schedule, even when school is out.

avimom

Sun, Jul 06 2008, 9:56 pm

I decided to keep my almost three year old home this summer, and I have a small infant too (I don't work in the summers). So far I have absolutely no regrets. I am saving a large amount of money, and I am spending a lot of quality time with my kids. I made a list of fun, free, activities to do in the summer and we have been doing them!! We have a relaxed, yet structured day, and I for one am having a ball- I wish I would do this all year round! If anyone out there is interested in ideas of things to do you can PM me.

RedRuby

Sun, Jul 06 2008, 10:01 pm

It's an excellent question...

For our daughter (first year at sleepaway camp) we think it's a necessity. She goes to a day school without any other frum kids her age and is so hungry to be immersed in a frum environment. Her class is small, and the girls are nice, but she always feels so different.

I think for a kid like that, to be in an environment where they feel like they are one of the bunch is so necessary. Especially at the tween/teen age when friends become so important.

[But for my others, it's either day camp that is affordable and/or stocking up on craft supplies and we do art projects, local free trips and go swimming at a neighbor's pool to fill our days. I enjoy spending more time with them, without the structure of school, homework, etc. ]

greenfire

Sun, Jul 06 2008, 10:06 pm

I think it is neither a necessity or a luxury ... but rather a torture ...

you spend an entire school year busy busy busy ... sundays in school as well ... when does a kid ever get a break and time to explore being a kid ...

as for me when the kids were small I kept busy with "camp mommy" some days we would swim in a little pool in the backyard or have water balloon fights ... we'd go to the zoo ... to the creek ... to the library ... visit family out of town ... exploring the woods looking for snakes, frogs and salamanders ...

when they were sent to camp - each one in their own time & their own type of camp ... it was not liked ... so I say why bother ... What

what I mostly cannot stand is that people generally think - especially being divorced - that you MUST send them to camp ... they have a hard time understanding that my kids have not liked it ... and hard earned scholarship monies could be given to a kid who would enjoy it more ...

red sea

Sun, Jul 06 2008, 10:14 pm

If there is a SAHM I think it is a luxury, except that everyone around where I live thinks that idea is insane and a true necessity. As greenfire said some kids dont even like it and rather have down time to just be a kid. And dont forget the schools think it is a necessity too, g-d forbid you send them a 'neglected' child who hasn't been in a group environment yet. I am not saying its not fun or a great experience - it is (for most kids) but that doesn't mean its a basic need.

Last edited by red sea on Sun, Jul 06 2008, 11:44 pm; edited 1 time in total

Mama Bear

Sun, Jul 06 2008, 10:21 pm

my two cents:

a school aged child who has already been to school, needs daycamp. the day is very long and hot.

sleep away camp? I think a kid whose family stays in the city doesnt need camp prior to seventh grade. a family that goes to the mountains, the kids doesnt need camp before 8th or 9th grade.

Mama Bear

Sun, Jul 06 2008, 10:49 pm

at a certain age there is no daycamp anymore (like seventh grade). teenagers should not be home all summer without anything to do. I think from 7th grade and up if youre in the city, sleep away camp, at least for 1/2 summer, is important. there is nothing to do in the city all summer. you cant take daytrips every day, and there isnt all that many places where to go. teenagers need to socialize with kids their age. if there is no daycamp for them what should they do all day????

micki

Sun, Jul 06 2008, 10:57 pm

I love having them home. I don't like rushing kids out the door and enjoy letting them do what htey want. but you must have a schedule so ther e is no boredom,
we do
10 everyone must be dressed and fed
then we daven together.
then they play outside for an hour. while I do houswork-
baby goes to sleep and I do an art project with the kids. (I go to a craft store and spend $50 and get all kinds of supplies)
then lunch baby wakes up and we go out to library, pool, park whatever we wnat but we must be out of the house.
then come home around 5 eat supper they play outside againa nd then bed etc...
its full but relaxed.

and then I sned them to camp for a month while I sleep and recover.
this year its not relaly working out for us, with camp being the first month and having a baby now I wouldn't be able to do much anyway. so hopefully we'll do mommy camp in august.

Mama Bear

Sun, Jul 06 2008, 11:20 pm

if you live upstate and the kids actually have where to play, and there is actually a pool to go to, this can work. if you live in the city, all you have is the hot concrete, no neighbors to play with, no pool to go to. day camp is an absolute necessity if you;'re in the city all summer.

I cannot imagine what I'd do with my almost 3 yr old every day - just entertaining him on friday and shabbos all day is draining. granted I'm 9 months pregnant, but still - in daycamp he gets to sit in a wading pool twice a week, a nice air conditioned room full of toys, parsha stories, and other boys to play with. here at home? he'd just color on the walls, crumble cookies into pieces, and watch videos all live long day. and in order for him to play outside that would mean me sitting or standing outside in the hot street for an hour or more...

HAPPYMOMMY

Sun, Jul 06 2008, 11:36 pm

I pretty much agree with the posters above regarding the benefits of sending kids to camp. Regarding sleep away camp - besides learning to be independent, the grass and open space... there is also the issue of tznius for the boys/bochrim being in the city for the summer. By sending them to a private camp in the mountains for at least 2 months (or however long they do go) they avoid seeing the non jews with almost no clothes on.

Yakira

Sun, Jul 06 2008, 11:40 pm

Some of my most amazing memories are from summer camp. I was able to feel things and become someone that I never was able to be during the year. I really only started enjoying it after 9th Grade though.

About day camps. I think once a kid is old enough to know that their school friends are in day camp, they should also go as well.

Barbara

Mon, Jul 07 2008, 1:15 am

Well, I'd never say that camp is a *necessity* No one ever died of not going to summer camp.

That said, the value of camp really depends upon the child's age and personality. A 3 year-old may be satisfied with a couple of afternoons a week in the sprinkler at the local park, but a 12 year-old is likely to find that a bit baby-ish. An introvert might enjoy playing by herself at home several mornings a week, while an extrovert would find it torture. (Likewise, an introvert may well hate having to be amongst other kids at camp 24/7, while an extrovert might thrive under those conditions.) It also depends upon what other kids in the area do.

I have an 11 year-old extrovert. An hour not surrounded by his buddies is torture for him, so he'd be miserable at home. While we could cobble together a summer of week-long specialty camps, kids his age simply don't attend regular day camps in our area.

creativemommyto3

Mon, Jul 07 2008, 1:25 am

It is VERY hard to keep kids entertained the whole summer. They need structure and entertainment. Take it from us in EY where there aren't that many camps. At the end of the summer the mommy is ready to collapse after t he whole summer of doing this. I work in the evenings. I took care of my kids and house the whole day. I was sooooooooo tired that I almost got myself fired. It takes a lot of koach for the mommy to take care of her kids and entertain them all day and not collapse.

Tamiri

Mon, Jul 07 2008, 1:39 am

avimom wrote:

Where do you live? I never sent any of my kids to more than one month of day camp (yes, tuition came first) and had no qualms about them being home all summer. I don't know where you live, but if it's in the NY/NJ metro area, there are FABULOUS State Parks in NJ (I imagine also in NY) where the entrance fee is minimal and there is also a very inexpensive season pass. There are lakes, beaches with sand, hikes, boating, fishing (I bought my kids cheap nets at Walmart) and it's easy to spend the day at a State Park.

To the mother who is having trouble with her neighbor's kid, kept home for the summer: the reason he is lke that is most likely because he is accustomed to school many days a week and he does not know how to entertain himself. Sending kids out too soon, for too many hours (like most mothers) robs the child of the ability to play by himself and be happy. It would happen to you too, if you had a kid used to being out all the time, and all of a sudden he's kept home. I have a 3.5 yo who has never been in a program and he is VERY busy all the time, both during the year and the summer, because he knows how to entertain himself (we also have a house full of sibs during the summer).