Chickenpox Vaccine

Emuna

Wed, Nov 30 2005, 12:47 pm

I'm debating whether or not to give this vaccine - my doctor says they outgrow the vaccine and the disease gets worse the older you are, so she advises AGAINST the vaccine. She says to let the child get it before a certain age. I don't know. The other side is that it's a horrible disease that could bring complications chas v'shalom.

Anyone with medical knowledge on this?

ElTam

Wed, Nov 30 2005, 12:52 pm

I'm really torn on this too. Although I'm pro-vaccine in general, it seems like the risk of exposure as an adult is high because kids don't get vaccinated until they are school-age, so there is a big enough population that the disease will remain fairly common, and thus a chance you could get exposed.

There's also the option to vaccinate later in life, when it does become more dangerous to have it. Like at 18 or whatever your child could get the vaccine.

You should know though, that having it in childhood does not always provide life-long immunity. I had chicken pox when I was 6, but when I got tested for immunity before I had my first child, my antibody levels were not high enough that I would have fought off the disease. So I had to get vaccinated as an adult. As it happened, the day I went in for my shot, my doctor had seen a woman in her 20s with the chickenpox, and he admitted her to the hospital because of how sick she was.

elisecohen

Wed, Nov 30 2005, 2:18 pm

I personally do see chicken pox as a public health threat. Children really do occasionally die of it, and those with asthma or other chronic conditions are at greater risk. Yes, it's generally accepted that a booster will be needed to continue immunity, but that's not a big deal to me. I got chicken pox myself at 17, despite having been exposed many times in childhood when my own siblings had it. I was very sick, with pneumonia and so on.

If herd immunity can eradicate or at least vastly lower the risk for our own children and others, I'm all for it myself.

chavamom

Thu, Dec 01 2005, 9:57 am

Your doctor was very honest. I have not found many pediatricians that would give you that info.

There are a number of problems with the chicken pox vaccine. One is that apparently the c/p virus (varicella zoster) is one that keeps mutating slightly, so they are finding that the vaccine isn't as effective as they thought it was. In other words, as time passes, kids are getting it and not just from the vaccine 'wearing off'. They have also found that yes, the effectiveness of the vaccine decreases greatly after the first year (it is already only 80-something % effective after only one year). Yes, you may need a booster, but it's not just one booster. It is probably a booster every 10 years minimally - that is the idea the medical community is toying around with. I know personally I can't keep track of my tetanus shot every 10 year, so I find it hard to imagine that people will keep on top of their c/p vaccine. And what if your immunity drops before 10 years (as there is ample evidence that it will)? So you have pushed the disease out of the period of time when it will most likely be 'no big deal' into a period when it can be a real health risk.

The biggest problem they are finding is that as c/p goes down in the pediatric population, cases of shingles in adults are soaring. Why? B/c shingles is caused by a reactivation of the varicella zoster virus which your body carries for life after c/p exposure (even with the vaccine). The theory is that yearly outbreaks in the community provide a 'booster' to the immune system. In essense, the person is exposed to the wild virus, the immune system says ' oh yeah. we know this virus' and produces more antibodies. Without this exposure, the antibody production doesn't happen and eventually the virus is reactivated as shingles. For those of you who think that c/p is horrible, shingles is much more so.

middy

Sat, Dec 10 2005, 10:26 pm

mothering magazine this month has an article on this entitled trading chicken pox for shingles? The research findings published in the International Journal of Toxicology say that the rate of shingles has increased since this vaccine began which causes 3x as many deaths and 5x as many hospitalizations as c.p. children's best bet is to come in contact with people who have c.p. It is harder to find this though as more children are vaccinated.

raizy

Thu, Feb 09 2006, 11:28 pm

I agree with chavamom. and the others. rather get the cp then shingles. but my baby was bye the clsc . and my dh took him . and the nurse offered him a free cp vaccine. she claimed that even if the cp will come it will come lighter. so I gave the shot to my baby. he was exposed to cp the last few weeks and still doesnt have it.but for my other children I didnt vacinate them.

I begged and begged the other children to get cp all at once. but they all refused . only one child got it and the other 3 dont want to listhen to me. boohoo.

realeez

Fri, Feb 17 2006, 2:40 pm

Click for a link to a very informative site regarding chicken pox.
http://www.emedicine.com/ped/topic2385.htm
Some exerpts below.

chavamom wrote:

The biggest problem they are finding is that as c/p goes down in the pediatric population, cases of shingles in adults are soaring.

eMedicine wrote:

Among the health benefits of routine varicella immunization in childhood may be a lifelong decreased risk for reactivation of the virus as shingles.

chavamom wrote:

Pre-vaccine there were 40 children a year who died of C.Pox

eMedicine wrote:

Before vaccination for varicella became widespread in the United States, this disease caused as many as 100 deaths annually. Since the varicella vaccine was introduced in the United States in 1995, disease incidence has fallen substantially.

eMedicine wrote:

In the US: Before varicella vaccine use became widespread, 4 million cases of chickenpox were reported annually. The disease was responsible for 11,000 hospitalizations each year and approximately 50-100 deaths. Currently, less than 10 deaths occur per year, most of them in unimmunized people. The mortality rate in children who are immunocompromised is much higher

And complications...

eMedicine wrote:

A recent study suggests that nearly 1 in 50 cases of varicella are associated with complications; among the most dreaded are varicella pneumonia and encephalitis, both associated with a high mortality rate. In addition, significant concerns have recently been raised about the association of varicella with severe invasive group A streptococcal disease.

chavamom wrote:

kids who get the vaccine are still getting the disease

eMedicine wrote:

The vaccine has been found to have protective efficacy of 71-100% against varicella. However, protection against moderate and severe varicella is much higher (95-100%).

chavamom

Fri, Feb 17 2006, 6:04 pm

I don't have time to address all the issues above, but I believe these articles are giving you facts without context. First of all, I said 40 and you are quibbling 'it's not 40 it was 100'. Notice it says 'as high as 100'. That means it's the highest figure they could find for one given year. Out of 1,000's and 1,000's of cases a year. Even Merck pharmaceuticals, maker of the vaccine cites the 40 number. Varicella pnemonia is almost exclusively found in those who are older and those who are immunocompromised. There is ALSO a valid study that shows that kids who get the vaccine are MORE likely to get shingles, so this is a matter of dispute (not to mention that shingles is becoming more common in younger and younger people due to the decrease in varicella in the community). One final point, a recent report came out that showed that while immunity was high right after vaccination, within a year it was down to 83% and decreases further with time. We will never eliminate this disease entirely, like say polio (we hope) or small pox b/c individuals can spread c.pox through a reactivation of the virus as shingles. This vaccine has been licensed for about 30 years but could not get approved for use in the US for low risk children b/c of a number of the above issues AND IT WAS SEEN AS A BENIGN DISEASE. However, they persuaded the FDA to allow it for everyone because of the lost work days for mothers that had to stay home with kids with a benign disease. It is only since the approval of the disease that we are being told how 'dangerous' the disease is. Do you remember your parents fearing for your life when you had c. pox? There are many, many common diseases that cause (r'l) deaths in individuals, some at much higher rates than c. pox (check out the flu stats, but generally speaking we don't recommend flu vaccine except for those at risk).

chavamom

Fri, Feb 17 2006, 6:05 pm

I don't have time to address the issues above, but I believe these articles are giving you facts without context. First of all, I said 40 and you are quibbling 'it's not 40 it was 100'. Notice it says 'as high as 100'. That means it's the highest figure they could find for one given year. Out of 1,000's and 1,000's of cases a year. Even Merck pharmaceuticals, maker of the vaccine cites the 40 number. Varicella pnemonia is almost exclusively found in those who are older and those who are immunocompromised. There is ALSO a valid study that shows that kids who get the vaccine are MORE likely to get shingles, so this is a matter of dispute (not to mention that shingles is becoming more common in younger and younger people due to the decrease in varicella in the community). One final point, a recent report came out that showed that while immunity was high right after vaccination, within a year it was down to 83% and decreases further with time. We will never eliminate this disease entirely, like say polio (we hope) or small pox b/c individuals can spread c.pox through a reactivation of the virus as shingles. This vaccine has been licensed for about 30 years but could not get approved for use in the US for low risk children b/c of a number of the above issues AND IT WAS SEEN AS A BENIGN DISEASE. However, they persuaded the FDA to allow it for everyone because of the lost work days for mothers that had to stay home with kids with a benign disease. It is only since the approval of the disease that we are being told how 'dangerous' the disease is. Do you remember your parents fearing for your life when you had c. pox? There are many, many common diseases that cause (r'l) deaths in individuals, some at much higher rates than c. pox (check out the flu stats, but generally speaking we don't recommend flu vaccine except for those at risk).

goldrose

Sat, Feb 18 2006, 10:50 pm

Quote:

my doctor says they outgrow the vaccine and the disease gets worse the older you are, so she advises AGAINST the vaccine.

like chava mom said, I'm surprised (pleasantly!) that your doctor was honest with you. since you wont find many doctors coming out with this truth, I'd say ask this doctor for more info and see what she says. but of course DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH as these are YOUR children and YOUR responsibility.

good luck!

p.s. most ppl on this site are not very well informed - at least enough to transmit proper info to others. I'd say do REAL research.

chavamom

Sat, Feb 18 2006, 11:29 pm

mommyabc123 wrote:

The complications resulting from chicken pox are what concern me the most. The vaccine prevents the complications even when it may not prevent the actual chicken pox.

You have evidence for that? I know one of the doctors here whose kid got a nasty case and a staff infection. The child had been fully vaccinated for c. pox.