WWYD - parent pulling out of camp/babysitting last minute

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Forum -> Relationships -> Manners & Etiquette

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amother

Tue, Aug 15 2023, 7:26 am

amother Stoneblue wrote:

I think this is pretty common.
Not saying it's right.
But I do classes. People will sign up and back out and forget to tell me.
And yes, it's frequently the same families.
I just chalk it up to "that's business."
Those people are either disorganized, forgetful, or clueless about what goes on the other side. Also, they don't have an appreciation for how their actions are perceived or that they may be liable to pay.

Many years ago, I was trying to organize a class for a certain age group. I needed 6 kids to make the class. One mother told me her daughter wants to come, and as a result, her 3 friends would join. So thay made 4. I had 2 other kids and we confirmed the class.
The night before, the mother said that the time wasn't good, so I went and changed the time to a time that would work for her. This was in the days before texting so every change required me to call each person.
The morning of the class, the mom told me her daughter decided not to do it after all. Her 3 friends followed suit. Just like that, the class fell apart. I remember feeling shocked that the mom could just let her daughter do this. I assumed she was dysfunctional.
Many years later, this lady was my son's assistant morah. She was all friendly. I could never look at her as if she was a normal person because of that incident.

omg that's horrible!!

amother

Tue, Aug 15 2023, 7:34 am

I really appreciate everyone's responses. This is what I messaged the mom at 10am yesterday:

ok so after looking into this a bit more, there might be a halachic obligation to still pay since you had signed up, but maybe you can look for someone to take your spot instead? I definitely don't want to cause any financial stress...I just want to make sure that the girls are not losing out either

She responded ok and I haven't heard from her since. I reachednout yesterday evening to ask if she had been able to find a replacement and then again this morning to ask when she would be available to talk this through. The tricky part is that I work closely with this person and really don't want to have bad feelings between us, but at the same time, I don't want to make my daughter suffer the consequences of that.

If I don't hear back from her after this, I think I will just tell her that I am leaving it in her hands to ask her rav what to do and then chalk it up to a loss. I will talk to the girls at that point and explain to them the importance of letting go and Dan lkaf zechus even when things aren't fair. And I definitely will not let her babysit for them again bli neder.

amother

Brown

Tue, Aug 15 2023, 7:37 am

Don’t do business with them in the future.

amother

Green

Tue, Aug 15 2023, 7:38 am

amother OP wrote:

You did what you needed to do. I once heard that besides for Shidduchim Hashem "runs" around all day righting all the monetary wrongs that people have done since the beginning of time. Paying back and taking from grandchildren etc. Either rely on Hashem to give you what's rightfully yours or assume it's meant to right a wrong. Either way, I'd forget about it (yes u know that's super difficult)

amother

Tue, Aug 15 2023, 7:42 am

amother Green wrote:

I appreciate that outlook. I think I will have an easier time truly letting go than my daughter. I really hope that I can find a way to help her accept this as from Hashem without bearing a grudge. All part of becoming an adult lol!

mizle10

Tue, Aug 15 2023, 7:56 am

Actually, I’m pretty sure according to halacha if it was only a verbal agreement, no contract was signed and no money was exchanged she does not need to compensate you Sad

Unless you didn’t mention but she actually did sign/pay

This does not make in menchlich or right, but according to letter of the law she hasn’t done anything wrong.

amother

Glitter

Tue, Aug 15 2023, 8:06 am

I’ll add that non refundable deposits do help.

I signed my child up for a backyard camp. And sent in the deposit. A few weeks later his playgroup morah (from this past school year) decided to make a camp. I would have loveeeed to keep him where he was all year. and would have backed out on the backyard camp… BUT I already gave in the deposit! And I had no interest in loosing my $150! (Along with a bunch of other kids from the same group. All gave in deposits, otherwise they would have also gone back to the old morah).

So yes, ppl might have good reasons to back out. And perhaps even with a deposit they still will. But it’ll def lessen the chances of it happening.

b.chadash

Tue, Aug 15 2023, 8:18 am

Before:
As much as possible, put systems into place to protect yourself.
After: Believe it's from Hashem. And let it go.

Chayalle

Tue, Aug 15 2023, 8:25 am

A few years ago DD ran an after-camp daycamp (we had a neighbor who is a playgroup Morah, and she offered extended hours during the year. A few mothers requested this in the summer, and she wasn't offering it, but asked DD to do it). There was a set price for those who signed up, and DD did special activities with them, bought supplies, etc...
There was one girl who came I think once or twice, that entire month. She had signed up but didn't show. We asked a sheilah, and Rav said DD could charge the full amount, no problem L'Halacha, they had committed, she bought supplies, etc....
The family gave us no trouble and paid the full amount.

You commit to something, you pay, unless there are extenuating circumstances...

amother

Chartreuse

Tue, Aug 15 2023, 8:25 am

For anyone who is curious about the halacha of a verbal offer, the below may be a good starting point for discussion with a rav.

https://www.torahmusings.com/2.....rker/

amother

Wed, Aug 16 2023, 4:59 pm

Update: I spoke with the mom and she apologized right away for not letting us know sooner and validated on her own that it wasn't fair to the girls. She offered to pay the amount for the first week of camp and still work on finding someone to take her child's slot for the second week. BH!

amother

Camellia

Wed, Aug 16 2023, 5:35 pm

amother Snow wrote:

I scheduled a babysitter for a night out with dh, and had a baby the morning of our scheduled date.

I canceled the babysitter.

Since then she's never been available. Reading this thread makes me wonder if she's never available because I canceled that time.

:/

I would ask a rav but at a minimum pay half.

amother

Petunia

Tue, Sep 26 2023, 10:22 pm

mizle10 wrote:

Actually, I’m pretty sure according to halacha if it was only a verbal agreement, no contract was signed and no money was exchanged she does not need to compensate you Sad

Unless you didn’t mention but she actually did sign/pay

This does not make in menchlich or right, but according to letter of the law she hasn’t done anything wrong.

A verbal contract is binding too. You just don't have proof for Beis din but hashem knows.

abound

Tue, Sep 26 2023, 10:29 pm

How old is your daughter? l

amother

Snow

Tue, Sep 26 2023, 10:54 pm

amother Camellia wrote:

I would ask a rav but at a minimum pay half.

Seriously?

We arranged it at 1:30pm, I texted her the next morning at 8:45am.

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